[CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Shames, Peter M (312B) peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov
Wed Sep 6 15:15:26 UTC 2017


Ciao Massimo and Enrico,

Since the other "approaches", namely SCCC and DVB are already published, and include documented VCM features, publishing another document that just points at those two corner cases does not appear to add much value.

As I understood it the whole point of this document was to publish a clearly documented VCM approach that would work across all of the CCSDS coding and modulation standards.  This would be derivative from the other two (somewhat different) "approaches", but would be of value largely because it provided some integrated set of VCM features for the other CCSDS codes and modulations that were not otherwise served by the closed SCCC and DVB approaches.

I really do not see much value in publishing a book that does not clearly document how this is to be done.  Given the SCCC and DVB examples I doubt that this is a huge amount of work, and I do think it of potential value to the rest of the CCSDS community.

I thought that was the approach that was agreed to, but do understand that there may be a delay in publishing the document while that needed work gets done.  I think that a much better outcome than just publishing a book that points to DVB and SCCC as the only ways to accomplish this.

Best regards, Peter


From: "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>
Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:12 AM
To: "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>
Cc: Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, Dennis K Lee <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, Kenneth Andrews <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>, Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Thank you Enrico,

I think your summary captures very well the current situation.

Best regards,
Massimo


---------------------------------------------------
Massimo Bertinelli
Communication Systems Engineer
ESA/Estec

Tel. +31 (0)71 5653435
--------------------------------------------------



From:        Enrico Vassallo/esoc/ESA
To:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc:        Gian Paolo Calzolari/esoc/ESA at ESA, Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA at ESA, Massimo Bertinelli/estec/ESA at ESA, "Andrews, Kenneth S (332B)" <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz/esoc/ESA at ESA, "Bernard L. Edwards" <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>, "CCSDS CESG --" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, "Lee, Dennis K (332G)" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date:        09/06/2017 03:33 AM
Subject:        Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions
________________________________



Peter,

Let me intervene in this discussion as a concerned party. The book deals with 3 systems, two of which are well specified and one (the NASA option) just needs some extra work by NASA at least since both ESA and CNES will use their own system and have no resources to study another option. The two groups involved (C&S had the lead over RFM) thought it would be good to publish the book so as to get VCM available for these two systems at least. Another option would be to remove the NASA system now, publish the book with 2 systems, and when the NASA system is ready update the book.
Let me know if this would work for you.

I hope I have covered correctly the views of the C&S WG.

Enrico's phone


On Sep 5, 2017, at 23:57, Shames, Peter M (312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>> wrote:

Gippo,

Putting forward documents that are clearly incomplete, and even say so, is a waste of all of our time.  If you wish to believe that I am "the bad guy" and reject this, that's fine.

But please, all of you who had a roll in sending this forward in an incomplete state are really the ones who bear the responsibility for this problem, not me.

Regards, Peter



From: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 2:31 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>>, Kenneth Andrews <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int<mailto:Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>>, Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov<mailto:Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>>, Dennis K Lee <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Not at all.
Putting conditions that cannot be accomplished means rejecting the poll.

Gian Paolo

Sent from my iPhone

On 5. Sep 2017, at 23:29, Shames, Peter M (312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>> wrote:
Gippo, et al,

Just to be entirely clear.  My condition was to ask that the document meet the terms and maturity status required of all documents to be sent out for agency review.  I did not "REJECT" it, I asked that it be completed, as required.

Dear Massimo,

Since the document itself says "For systems compliant with CCSDS 131.0-B-2 further work is needed. " I think it is clear that the WG understands that the document is not yet complete.  I think it wisest to use the available time and effort to remedy that, and when it is complete, and at an adequate level of maturity, it should then be proposed again for agency review.

Best regards, Peter

It is up to the WG to meet the usual maturity conditions such that the document does not include statements like that.  I think the correct characterization is that the WG chose to WITHDRAW the document because it is not mature, and they could not remedy that in time, and not that it was rejected.

Best regards, Peter



From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 2:44 AM
To: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>
Cc: "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>>, Kenneth Andrews <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int<mailto:Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>>, Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov<mailto:Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Nestor,
       For the SLS VCM Protocol RB it has been clarified that the SEA Condition was actually a REJECT.
SLS disagreement was expressed in mail dated 08/08/2017 14:30

For SLS Optical Comm Physical Layer RB the WG is working on replies to the conditions.

Regards

Gian Paolo

PS The relevant WG chairs are copied here for information with the request to not do reply to all.



From:        Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
To:        "CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>\) \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>\)" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Date:        05/09/2017 11:12
Subject:        [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>
________________________________




Dear all,

There are 6 CESG closed polls with "not yet solved" conditions. The 6 polls are on documents to be issued for Agency Review.
i.e.
1.        SLS VCM Protocol RB
2.        SLS Optical Comm Physical Layer RB
3.        CSS Guidelines for spec of CSTS RB
4.        MOIMS MO MAL Binding to ZMTP transport
5.        MOIMS MO Data Product bDistribution RB
6.        MOIMS MO Common Services RB

It means that we have missed the opportunity to discuss the potential RIDs at the F17 meeting in Netherlands.

ciao
nestor
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