[CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Thu Sep 7 06:58:31 UTC 2017

Peter,
        your assumptions are wrong.
The approved projects is for Magenta Book that will address the various 
solutions defined in other Blue Books.
The approach fro Magenta was confirmed by WG consensus (if I am not wrong, 
but Massimo can correct me) in London at Fall 2014 Meeting.
In one thing you are corrects: the only solutions available in blue books 
are nowadays SCCC and DVB-S2 and this is not an ESA and/or CNES fault.

Regards

Gian Paolo

From:   "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>, 
"Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>
Cc:     "Bernard L. Edwards" <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>, "CCSDS CESG --" 
<cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, "Lee, Dennis K (332G)" 
<dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" 
<Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, "Andrews, Kenneth S (332B)" 
<kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int" 
<Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>, "Nestor.Peccia at esa.int" 
<Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Date:   06/09/2017 17:16
Subject:        Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Ciao Massimo and Enrico,

Since the other "approaches", namely SCCC and DVB are already published, 
and include documented VCM features, publishing another document that just 
points at those two corner cases does not appear to add much value.

As I understood it the whole point of this document was to publish a 
clearly documented VCM approach that would work across all of the CCSDS 
coding and modulation standards.  This would be derivative from the other 
two (somewhat different) "approaches", but would be of value largely 
because it provided some integrated set of VCM features for the other 
CCSDS codes and modulations that were not otherwise served by the closed 
SCCC and DVB approaches.

I really do not see much value in publishing a book that does not clearly 
document how this is to be done.  Given the SCCC and DVB examples I doubt 
that this is a huge amount of work, and I do think it of potential value 
to the rest of the CCSDS community.

I thought that was the approach that was agreed to, but do understand that 
there may be a delay in publishing the document while that needed work 
gets done.  I think that a much better outcome than just publishing a book 
that points to DVB and SCCC as the only ways to accomplish this.

Best regards, Peter

From: "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>
Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:12 AM
To: "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>
Cc: Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>, CCSDS Engineering 
Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, Dennis K Lee 
<dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, Gian Paolo Calzolari 
<Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, Kenneth Andrews 
<kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz 
<Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>, 
Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions

Thank you Enrico, 

I think your summary captures very well the current situation.   

Best regards, 
Massimo 

---------------------------------------------------
Massimo Bertinelli
Communication Systems Engineer
ESA/Estec

Tel. +31 (0)71 5653435
-------------------------------------------------- 

From:        Enrico Vassallo/esoc/ESA 
To:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Cc:        Gian Paolo Calzolari/esoc/ESA at ESA, Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA at ESA, 
Massimo Bertinelli/estec/ESA at ESA, "Andrews, Kenneth S (332B)" 
<kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz/esoc/ESA at ESA, 
"Bernard L. Edwards" <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov>, "CCSDS CESG --" 
<cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, "Lee, Dennis K (332G)" 
<dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Date:        09/06/2017 03:33 AM 
Subject:        Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions 

Peter, 

Let me intervene in this discussion as a concerned party. The book deals 
with 3 systems, two of which are well specified and one (the NASA option) 
just needs some extra work by NASA at least since both ESA and CNES will 
use their own system and have no resources to study another option. The 
two groups involved (C&S had the lead over RFM) thought it would be good 
to publish the book so as to get VCM available for these two systems at 
least. Another option would be to remove the NASA system now, publish the 
book with 2 systems, and when the NASA system is ready update the book. 
Let me know if this would work for you. 

I hope I have covered correctly the views of the C&S WG.

Enrico's phone 

On Sep 5, 2017, at 23:57, Shames, Peter M (312B) <
peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

Gippo, 

Putting forward documents that are clearly incomplete, and even say so, is 
a waste of all of our time.  If you wish to believe that I am "the bad 
guy" and reject this, that's fine.   

But please, all of you who had a roll in sending this forward in an 
incomplete state are really the ones who bear the responsibility for this 
problem, not me. 

Regards, Peter 

From: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 2:31 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>, "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int" <
Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>, Kenneth Andrews <
kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <
Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>, Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov
>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, 
"Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>, Dennis K Lee <
dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions 

Not at all. 
Putting conditions that cannot be accomplished means rejecting the poll. 

Gian Paolo

Sent from my iPhone 

On 5. Sep 2017, at 23:29, Shames, Peter M (312B) <
peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: 
Gippo, et al, 

Just to be entirely clear.  My condition was to ask that the document meet 
the terms and maturity status required of all documents to be sent out for 
agency review.  I did not "REJECT" it, I asked that it be completed, as 
required. 

Dear Massimo, 

Since the document itself says "For systems compliant with CCSDS 131.0-B-2 
further work is needed. " I think it is clear that the WG understands that 
the document is not yet complete.  I think it wisest to use the available 
time and effort to remedy that, and when it is complete, and at an 
adequate level of maturity, it should then be proposed again for agency 
review. 

Best regards, Peter 

It is up to the WG to meet the usual maturity conditions such that the 
document does not include statements like that.  I think the correct 
characterization is that the WG chose to WITHDRAW the document because it 
is not mature, and they could not remedy that in time, and not that it was 
rejected. 

Best regards, Peter 

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Gian Paolo 
Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 2:44 AM
To: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Cc: "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>, Kenneth 
Andrews <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <
Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>, Bernie Edwards <Bernard.L.Edwards at nasa.gov
>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions 

Nestor, 
       For the SLS VCM Protocol RB it has been clarified that the SEA 
Condition was actually a REJECT. 
SLS disagreement was expressed in mail dated 08/08/2017 14:30 

For SLS Optical Comm Physical Layer RB the WG is working on replies to the 
conditions. 

Regards 

Gian Paolo 

PS The relevant WG chairs are copied here for information with the request 
to not do reply to all. 

From:        Nestor.Peccia at esa.int 
To:        "CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group \(
cesg at mailman.ccsds.org\) \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org\)" <
cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> 
Date:        05/09/2017 11:12 
Subject:        [CESG] CESG polls stucked with ADs/DADs conditions 
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> 

Dear all, 

There are 6 CESG closed polls with "not yet solved" conditions. The 6 
polls are on documents to be issued for Agency Review. 
i.e. 
1.        SLS VCM Protocol RB 
2.        SLS Optical Comm Physical Layer RB 
3.        CSS Guidelines for spec of CSTS RB 
4.        MOIMS MO MAL Binding to ZMTP transport 
5.        MOIMS MO Data Product bDistribution RB 
6.        MOIMS MO Common Services RB 

It means that we have missed the opportunity to discuss the potential RIDs 
at the F17 meeting in Netherlands. 

ciao 
nestor 
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