[CESG] [Secretariat] Use of "Substantive changes"

[Thomas Gannett]

(Queued response, definitely not to be construed as reason to pick the thread up where it left off.)

 

From: Thomas Gannett [mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 11:55 AM
To: 'Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int'; 'Shames, Peter M (312B)'
Cc: 'CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec'; 'CESG'
Subject: RE: [Secretariat] [CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"

 

6.2.5.2 a) if technical issues are identified in the course of a review, those issues must be resolved and the review must be repeated before approval can be sought for a change of document status;

 

That’s rather unequivocal.

 

 

Thomas Gannett

thomas.gannett at tgannett.net

+1 443 472 0805

 

From: Secretariat [mailto:secretariat-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 1:42 PM
To: Shames, Peter M (312B)
Cc: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec; CESG
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] [CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"

 

So the condition is 
IF substantive changes AND  no technical comment 
THEN        Agency Review 
ELSE        No further Agency Review 

In the ELSE I see also the possibility     
        substantive changes AND  technical comment  ===> no further Agency review 

Enjoy and smile    :o) 

Gippo 



From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> 
To:        "Mario Merri" <Mario.Merri at esa.int> 
Cc:        "CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> 
Date:        15/05/2017 19:30 
Subject:        [CESG] Use of "Substantive changes" 
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> 

  _____  




Hi Mario, 
  
You just mentioned that you thought the word "substantive" did not appear in the CCSDS YB.  But it does, in sec 6.2.5.2 (emphasis added): 
  
6.2.5 FORMAL AGENCY REVIEW 
6.2.5.2 Once review of a document has been authorized, that document may be reviewed more than once without additional polling of the CMC: 
.          c)  if substantive changes are made to a document that has completed review without technical comment, the Secretariat shall conduct a final review in which Agencies can approve or reject the document but may not suggest additional changes; 
 
  
As with most words in the English language that are used in our documents, but not specifically defined, we depend on common usage in English to define meanings.  In this case we can refer to one or more dictionary definitions for this "common usage".  Try these: 
  
Google primary definition 
sub·stan·tive 
adjective 
adjective: substantive 
1.       having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable. 
"there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs" 
  
Oxford dictionary definition 
substantive 
adjective 
·         Having a firm basis in reality and so important, meaningful, or considerable. 
‘there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs’ 
  
There are also a few uses of "substantive change", but these tend to be organization / topic specific.  A couple that are relevant are these: 
  
When you talk about substantive change, you mean change that really makes a difference. 
  
Substantive change is a significant modification or expansion in the nature and scope of an accredited institution 
  
So this specific definition mentions "accredited organization", for us it could say "draft document", and that would have appropriate meaning in our context.  I think that these meanings are clear.  I hope you do as well. 
  
Regards, Peter 
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