[CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"

Mario.Merri at esa.int Mario.Merri at esa.int
Tue May 16 13:02:12 UTC 2017


Peter,

we keep on discussing the same thing over and over. OK, the word 
"substantive" is present in the YB, but not to mean "substantive technical 
issues". You should read the full paragraph and not only bullet c), below 
for everyone's convenience:

6.2.5.2 Once review of a document has been authorized, that document may 
be reviewed more than once without additional polling of the CMC:
a) if technical issues are identified in the course of a review, those 
issues must be resolved and the review must be repeated before approval 
can be sought for a change of document status;
b) increasing draft issue numbers shall be assigned to successive versions 
of the draft document released in successive iterations of the review (see 
annex E);
c) if substantive changes are made to a document that has completed review 
without technical comment, the Secretariat shall conduct a final review in 
which Agencies can approve or reject the document but may not suggest 
additional changes;
d) the Secretariat shall follow the same procedures for posting review 
materials and review announcement for each iteration of a review.

Paragraph a) deals with technical issues. Here no notion of substantive is 
present. An unreasonable person who reads this paragraph may understand 
that 1 technical issue is enough to call for another AR. Additionally, the 
notion of technical issue is not clear: is a technical issue present when 
there is a RID that has been marked as "Technical Fact"? And marked by who 
(the originator or the review coordinator)?

Paragraph c), that you quoted, refers to a document that has "completed 
the review without technical comments". 

Therefore the concept of substantive technical issue does not exist today 
in the YB. 

Regards,

__Mario



From:   "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Cc:     CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec 
<cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:   15/05/2017 16:50
Subject:        Use of "Substantive changes"



Hi Mario,
 
You just mentioned that you thought the word "substantive" did not appear 
in the CCSDS YB.  But it does, in sec 6.2.5.2 (emphasis added):
 
6.2.5 FORMAL AGENCY REVIEW 
6.2.5.2 Once review of a document has been authorized, that document may 
be reviewed more than once without additional polling of the CMC: 
.          c)  if substantive changes are made to a document that has 
completed review without technical comment, the Secretariat shall conduct 
a final review in which Agencies can approve or reject the document but 
may not suggest additional changes; ?
 
As with most words in the English language that are used in our documents, 
but not specifically defined, we depend on common usage in English to 
define meanings.  In this case we can refer to one or more dictionary 
definitions for this "common usage".  Try these:
 
Google primary definition
sub·stan·tive
adjective
adjective: substantive
1.       having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, 
meaningful, or considerable.
"there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs"
 
Oxford dictionary definition
substantive
adjective
·         Having a firm basis in reality and so important, meaningful, or 
considerable.
?there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs?
 
There are also a few uses of "substantive change", but these tend to be 
organization / topic specific.  A couple that are relevant are these:
 
When you talk about substantive change, you mean change that really makes 
a difference.
 
Substantive change is a significant modification or expansion in the 
nature and scope of an accredited institution
 
So this specific definition mentions "accredited organization", for us it 
could say "draft document", and that would have appropriate meaning in our 
context.  I think that these meanings are clear.  I hope you do as well.
 
Regards, Peter
 
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