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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(Queued response, definitely not to be construed as reason to pick the thread up where it left off.)</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Thomas Gannett [mailto:thomas.gannett@tgannett.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 19, 2017 11:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int'; 'Shames, Peter M (312B)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec'; 'CESG'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Secretariat] [CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>6.2.5.2 a) if technical issues are identified in the course of a review, those issues must be resolved <b>and the review must be repeated</b> before approval can be sought for a change of document status;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That’s rather unequivocal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thomas Gannett<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:thomas.gannett@tgannett.net">thomas.gannett@tgannett.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>+1 443 472 0805<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Secretariat [<a href="mailto:secretariat-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">mailto:secretariat-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 15, 2017 1:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Shames, Peter M (312B)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec; CESG<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Secretariat] [CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>So the condition is</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>IF </span><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>substantive changes AND no technical comment</span></i></b> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>THEN Agency Review</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ELSE No further Agency Review</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>In the ELSE I see also the possibility </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>substantive changes AND technical comment ===> no further Agency review</span></i></b> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Enjoy and smile :o)</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Gippo</span> <br><br><br><br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>From: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <<a href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov">peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span> <br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>To: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Mario Merri" <<a href="mailto:Mario.Merri@esa.int">Mario.Merri@esa.int</a>></span> <br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Cc: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec" <<a href="mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span> <br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Date: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>15/05/2017 19:30</span> <br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Subject: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[CESG] Use of "Substantive changes"</span> <br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Sent by: </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"CESG" <<a href="mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi Mario,</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>You just mentioned that you thought the word "substantive" did not appear in the CCSDS YB. But it does, in sec 6.2.5.2 (emphasis <b><i>added</i></b>):</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>6.2.5 FORMAL AGENCY REVIEW </span></b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>6.2.5.2 Once review of a document has been authorized, that document may be reviewed more than once without additional polling of the CMC: </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>. c) <b><i>if substantive changes are made</i></b> to a document that has completed review without technical comment, the Secretariat shall conduct a final review in which Agencies can approve or reject the document but may not suggest additional changes; </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>
</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As with most words in the English language that are used in our documents, but not specifically defined, we depend on common usage in English to define meanings. In this case we can refer to one or more dictionary definitions for this "common usage". Try these:</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Google primary definition</span></u> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>sub·stan·tive</span> <br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>adjective</span></i> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>adjective: <b>substantive</b></span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1. having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable.</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>"there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs"</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Oxford dictionary definition</span></u> <br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>substantive</span></b> <br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>adjective</span></b> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>· </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Having a firm basis in reality and so important, meaningful, or considerable.</span> <br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>‘there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs’</span></i> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>There are also a few uses of "substantive change", but these tend to be organization / topic specific. A couple that are relevant are these:</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>When you talk about substantive change, you mean change that really makes a difference.</span></i> <br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span></i> <br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Substantive change</span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> is a significant modification or expansion in the nature and scope of an accredited institution</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So this specific definition mentions "accredited organization", for us it could say "draft document", and that would have appropriate meaning in our context. I think that these meanings are clear. I hope you do as well.</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Regards, Peter</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><tt>CESG mailing list</tt><br><tt><a href="mailto:CESG@mailman.ccsds.org">CESG@mailman.ccsds.org</a></tt><br></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cesg"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cesg</span></tt></a><o:p></o:p></p><pre>This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>content is not permitted.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Please consider the environment before printing this email.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></div></body></html>