[Sls-slp] [EXTERNAL] RE: A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Wed May 24 15:57:23 UTC 2023

Dear SLS/SLP colleagues,

Just for the record, I am totally in agreement with everything that has been said re using USLP over Pro-1 coding and physical layer instead of trying to hack together something with AOS.  All of the reasons stated are completely valid in my eyes and I can see little benefit to the larger community of doing any work to support this project specific choice.  I also think it would be a bad precedent to set and it would, as Gilles points out, tend to further deplete the very limited AOS SCID namespace.

Best regards, Peter

From: SLS-SLP <sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Moury Gilles via SLS-SLP <sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org>
Reply-To: Gilles Moury <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 8:50 AM
To: Greg Kazz <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>, "sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org" <sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [Sls-slp] [EXTERNAL] RE: A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Dear SLP WG,
Another problem for AOS to be raised is the shortage of version 2 SCID, this version 2 SCID being only 8-bit. It is definitely not wise to pickup this standard for future missions that might encompass several spacecrafts.
Regards,
Gilles

Gilles MOURY
CNES Toulouse
De : SLS-SLP <sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> De la part de Kazz, Greg (US 312B) via SLS-SLP
Envoyé : mercredi 24 mai 2023 16:57
À : Kazz, Greg (US 312B) via SLS-SLP <sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org>
Objet : [Sls-slp] FW: [EXTERNAL] RE: A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Dear SLP WG,

Sharing some feedback from Amanuel Geda from DLR below:

So far the trend is clear, we encourage projects to use USLP, since it encorporates all the features of AOS into USLP, when fixed transfer frames are used.

Regards,
Greg

From: "Amanuel.Geda at dlr.de<mailto:Amanuel.Geda at dlr.de>" <Amanuel.Geda at dlr.de<mailto:Amanuel.Geda at dlr.de>>
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:03 AM
To: "Marco.Rovatti at esa.int<mailto:Marco.Rovatti at esa.int>" <Marco.Rovatti at esa.int<mailto:Marco.Rovatti at esa.int>>, "Kazz, Greg (US 312B)" <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Hi Greg and Marco,
I think Marco raised a good point: the WG should encourage projects to use USLP.
If the project wants fixed frame, still USLP can also be used as fixed frame.
Is there any service that AOS can deliver which can not be done by USLP?
It is probably good to remind the project to consider USLP. It will be a good feedback for the WG if the project describes the rational for AOS instead of USLP.

Cheers,
Amanuel

From: SLS-SLP <sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Marco Rovatti via SLS-SLP
Sent: Dienstag, 23. Mai 2023 15:53
To: Kazz, Greg(US 312B) <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>>; Kazz, Greg (US 312B) via SLS-SLP <sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [Sls-slp] A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Hi Greg,

I haven’t spoken with Moonlight people yet and I had not attended the meeting mentioned by Ignacio held a couple of days ago as I was not involved, therefore I’m only speculating here. I  will coordinate internally with Moonlight and Ignacio to get a better picture.
In any case, I still don’t get what kind of problem Moonlight project is trying to solve by using AOS over Prox-1.
At a first glance it seems that they will get into more troubles than those they want to fix, but, again, pending listening to Moonlight opinions.
In fact, AOS is fixed length frames and does not support COP.
In the end, it might work with workarounds, however I would not recommend it.

Preferred options:

  1.  Use prox-1 frames OR
  2.  Use USLP

Cheers
Marco

From: SLS-SLP <sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Kazz, Greg (US 312B) via SLS-SLP
Sent: 22 May 2023 19:42
To: Kazz, Greg (US 312B) via SLS-SLP <sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: [Sls-slp] A Mission Proposal - AOS Transfer Frames over Proximity-1 Session Control

Dear SLP WG,

A question has come to me via the ESA Moonlight mission regarding the feasibility of using the AOS Space Data Link Protocol over the Proximity-1 session control (state tables that control link establishment, data exchange, and link termination).

I would like to know your opinion on this question: What does the SLP WG think about the possibility of using the AOS transfer frame format with Prox-1 session control ?

Here are my thoughts below:

Pro:

As you may know from our last meeting, the WG is attempting to split the Prox-1 SDLP book into a separate session control book, separate COP-P book, and a separate transfer frame PDU book, that one similar to the existing TC, TM, AOS books. If we succeed in that endeavor, it would be much easier for a mission to swap in different CCSDS data link layer protocols below the Prox-1 session control sublayer.

Con:

However, all the fine details to ensure dividing up the Prox-1 books has not yet been worked out by the SLP WG. This really has only been done for USLP and Prox-1. Nor has any interoperability testing been accomplished as well to clearly demonstrate interoperability. Therefore, it would be the responsibility of each and every mission to take on that additional risk, if they were to use AOS for example with Prox-1 session control. Lastly, CCSDS created USLP in order to do just that – replace AOS, TM, TC, Prox-1 with one link layer PDU useable in all venues. USLP has been interoperability tested by CCSDS.

We have a short fuse of two weeks to gather our inputs to this question, so I appreciate a quick response back from you all.

Best regards,

Greg – Chairman CCSDS SLP WG

Greg Kazz
Principal Engineer
Technical Group Supervisor,
312B Project Protection, Project Software, and End to End Information System Engineering
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove Dr., M/S 301-490
Pasadena, CA 91109
1+(818)393 6529(voice)
1+(818)393 6871(fax)
email: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>

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