[Sis-csi] Cislunar Section 8 - definitions and stacks

Fri Sep 2 10:10:03 EDT 2005

Keith,

That's a good layout for the various sections.  I'll incorporate those
into the document this weekend and return what I have to the mailing
list.  My only concern is the part about relays.  I don't have insight
into what the architecture of the second lunar mission will be, but
since LRO will have a relay capability (at least in the extended
mission, I think?) and as there are a fair amount of planetary science
missions that used relays (MER, Cassini, Galileo, Pathfinder, etc), I'd
like to keep that up front.  Perhaps I could drop the dedicated
constellation I have in there now and instead rely on the orbiters to do
relays.  For Mars, this is realistic since every orbiter that goes there
now has a relay capability so maybe that would be OK for the Moon as
well.

That part about "ground" either being on the Moon or the Earth or Mars
is tricky.  I'm not sure what the answer is there.  I think it's clear
that, say, a lander does not equal a control center on the Earth, but
I'm not sure whether a control center on the Earth would not equal one
on the Moon.  Maybe we need to refer to assets by their location and
type as opposed to ground/space?  

Chris  

-----Original Message-----
From: sis-csi-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
[mailto:sis-csi-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hogie
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:20 PM
To: sis-csi at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: Re: [Sis-csi] Cislunar Section 8 - definitions and stacks

Chris,

  Yes, we definitely want sections that current mission people can
relate to.  We need to start by just describing more network based ways
of doing their current circuit based operations.

  In the following types of scenarios I was thinking of the first two as
your existing unmanned and manned  areas that focus on current types of
operations.  We just do them with new applications and more network
oriented protocols.  We might want to go through the basic operations in
1 and 2 below without introducing things like relay systems.  This might
shorten these sections and it should make them sound more comfortable to
current mission folks.

Then it seems we will need some additional sections since at some point
we will have unmanned and manned systems interacting with each other.

Another thought is that relays are not too common today so we might want
to discusss them in a section (3) separate from the traditional stuff.
We would need to run through the basic scenarios from the previous
sections but would add realtime and store-and-forward relays.

Then in 4, non-earthly, we go off into scenarios that are both manned
and unmanned but they do not involve any interaction with or through
ground systems.  This is getting into scenarios that are very different
from most current operations.

In 5 we get into more that 2 systems communicating in all sorts of
combinations.

This is just one way of organizing the range of scenarios.  I think we
need to keep trying various combinations to find something that makes
sense to us and covers a wide range of scenarios in a somewhat organized
fashion.

1 - Traditional satellite/rover scenarios - GROUND controlling
satellites/rovers, data dumps, etc.

2 - Traditional MANNED scenarios - voice, video, telemetry

3 - More elaborate scenarios with RELAYS at network layer and above for
realtime and file store-and -forward  (not TDRSS, or other RF relay)

4 - NON-EARTHLY scenarios with unmanned and manned interaction without
Earth contact

5 - Scenarios with MULTI-PARTY communication, not just two endpoints

One other thought on terminology.

1 - When we talk about "ground" do we mean Earth only, or does this
include things on the "ground" of the Moon or Mars.  What about a
"ground station" or "control center" on the Lunar or Martian surface.

Keith Hogie

Krupiarz, Christopher wrote:

>Keith,
>
>I like the diagram you have better than mine.  Let's use that.
>
>For the categories, I want to make sure I understand what you are 
>saying.  In the document you list various endpoints.  What you are 
>saying is that you want a set of scenarios that, when put together, 
>encompass the various endpoints?  Did you want to keep the section as I

>have it divided now?  I agree we should try to cover all the endpoints.

>I would prefer we keep the division as we have it now for the reader 
>who is not coming from a networking background so they can see how 
>their particular mission may fit into the architecture.
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sis-csi-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org 
>[mailto:sis-csi-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hogie
>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:58 PM
>Cc: sis-csi at mailman.ccsds.org
>Subject: Re: [Sis-csi] Cislunar Section 8 - definitions and stacks
>
>
>Chris,
>
>  In reviewing your other examples and trying to figure out a what we
>should use, I ended up trying to see if there were some categories we 
>could identify for all the types of data flows.  Then we could do an 
>example for each case.  I put some thoughts in the file and tried to
fit
>
>your first example into those definitions.
>
>I'm not sure where this is going but in the process of trying to fit
>your example into the categories I found that the example starts by 
>discussing a transfer down and then ends up describing a transfer up.  
>So running through the checklist of categories actually had some use.
>
>I also noticed that your relay node did not go high enough to do the
>CFDP processing.  It shows a relay node with no storage and that only 
>does packet forwarding.  I inserted an alternate diagram that tried to 
>put more emphasis on the network layer, file storage locations, and RF 
>links.  It also doesn't include lower layer details to avoid any 
>conflict with other working groups.
>
>I didn't get down to proposing any alternate scenarios yet.  Some
>initial thoughts are:
>
>1 - Traditional satellite/rover scenarios - GROUND controlling
>satellites/rovers, data dumps, etc.
>2 - Traditional MANNED scenarios - voice, video, telemetry
>3 - More elaborate scenarios with RELAYS at network layer and above for

>realtime and file store-and -forward  (not TDRSS, or other RF relay) 4
-
>Non-Earthly scenarios with unmanned and manned interaction without 
>Earth contact
>5 - Scenarios with MULTI-PARTY communication, not just two endpoints
>
>See what you think
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Keith Hogie                   e-mail: Keith.Hogie at gsfc.nasa.gov
>  Computer Sciences Corp.       office: 301-794-2999  fax: 301-794-9480
>  7700 Hubble Dr.
>  Lanham-Seabrook, MD 20706  USA        301-286-3203 @ NASA/Goddard
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Keith Hogie                   e-mail: Keith.Hogie at gsfc.nasa.gov
  Computer Sciences Corp.       office: 301-794-2999  fax: 301-794-9480
  7700 Hubble Dr.
  Lanham-Seabrook, MD 20706  USA        301-286-3203 @ NASA/Goddard
----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Sis-CSI mailing list
Sis-CSI at mailman.ccsds.org
http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sis-csi