[CESG] [EXTERNAL] CESG Minutes of Meeting - Final version

Mon Jun 3 16:18:50 UTC 2019

Dear Margherita,

I too have given this matter some additional thought.   My first reaction was actually to say "Ok, we can do it that way."  But after thinking about this some more, looking at your original note from 24 May regarding these minutes, and looking again at the actual contents of those minutes, I find that this is not really satisfactory, for the following reasons.

  1.  Your original statement (24 May) about what the minutes should contain was this:
     *   The scope of the Minutes of Meeting is to record the conclusion of the discussion and the way forward ( decisions and actions).
     *   Otherwise,  for the sake of fairness, all opinions and contributions by the participants to the discussion should be recorded.
  2.  After looking again at the "Final" minutes, particularly the section on the Yellow Book, I find that it starts with an opinion, and that is followed by a statement.  In fact, the whole of the MoM is pretty evenly peppered with the same sort of thing.
  3.  If, as you suggest now, we are only going to apply the more stringent of the rules (a), then we should do so uniformly.  If we are going to follow the more relaxed of the rules (b) then we should do that uniformly.

So I really must object to having various sets of opinions and statements included and others, equally valid (if not more so), excluded by some arbitrary and uneven application of a "rule".  This seems neither accurate nor fair.

I propose the following minimum change to the MoM, to be inserted right after the heading:

PS presented his analysis of the history of the MOIMS / SOIS agreements dating back to 2004, which resulted in extensive discussion.  This presentation demonstrated, using MOIMS, SOIS, and other published materials,  that all of the prior discussions of MOIMS and SOIS interactions had overlooked, or left un-addressed, the real nature of typical spacecraft on-board environments, with hard real-time control systems, robust fault-tolerant architectures, and stringent requirements on software development and testing processes (Class A/B).  There was general agreement that this is the case.   A separate Annex covering the details of the technical discussions is being prepared, as is a revision of the Yellow Book that is intended to provide an agreed way forward.

Is that acceptable?

Best regards, Peter

From: "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>
Date: Monday, June 3, 2019 at 3:19 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [CESG] CESG Minutes of Meeting - Final version

Dear Peter and All,
I have taken some time before replying, because the matter is complex.

One one hand, I stick to my statement that "The scope of  the Minutes of Meeting is to record the conclusion of the discussion and the way forward ( decisions and actions). "
This holds for *any*  Minute of Meeting, because the MoMs are not supposed to be a technical report about the topics addressed during the meeting
The MoM is an administrative and management document

On the other hand,  I understand  the desire to record all the steps of the technical discussion  and the key concepts, for future use.
Peter's input is valuable, but it it reflects the content of his notes taken at the meeting - I am not arguing if these are right or wrong,
There were other opinions and contributions,  from (almost all of the ) CESG members.

Conclusion: the three involved parties ( Peter, Mario, Jonathan) shall write a "Complement" or Annex to the MoM, containing the steps of the discussion that contributed to the clarification of the concepts, and that brought to the conclusions.
The effort for doing such Annex is not major, and in any case it will constitute the basis for future technical work - so, it will be directly  re-usable.
The material already available from Peter's notes shared via previous e-mail(s) is a starting point. But this shall be either commented or concurred by Mario and Jonathan and, actually, by anybody who wish to contribute.
I request to stick to what was truly said during the meeting, rather then diverging with any sort of arguments.
That Annex, once agreed by all authors and finalised,  will be uploaded to the CWE in the same Directory where all the meeting material is.

If that  approach is fine with the a.m.  involved people  I will add to the MoM a "post-meeting Action" to produce the Annex.

Kind regards,
Margherita

--------------------------------------------------------------
Margherita di Giulio
Ground Station Systems Division
Backend Software Section (OPS-GSB)

European Space Agency ESA/ESOC
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany
Tel: +49-6151-902779
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>, "'CCSDS CESG --'" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:        24/05/2019 20:58
Subject:        Re: [EXTERNAL] [CESG] CESG Minutes of Meeting - Final version
________________________________

Dear Margherita,

I believe that you did a quite good job of dealing with somewhat contentious subject matter.  And I understand completely your approach.  To that end, and being mindful of what you stated below:

"Otherwise,  for the sake of fairness, all opinions and contributions by the participants to the discussion should be recorded "

I believe that there were significant statements made by both me and Mario that got left out of the discussion.  As a consequence, I am asking that the MoM be amended to include these significant statements, as shown in the attached.  As an example, it is clearly the case that I spent some significant time and effort to present the history, using images from the original SOIS / MOIMS MOU, and images from other more recent materials, to demonstrate that the whole concept of hard real-time systems and software, in the spacecraft on-board environment, had never even been acknowledged before.  This is key to understanding the limitations and constraints on any software intended to operate on-board, and it figured in Mario's statement that "MOIMS never intended to develop such real-time software."

In fairness, I would like the minutes to reflect these actual "opinions and contributions … to the discussion".

Thanks, Peter

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>
Date: Friday, May 24, 2019 at 9:25 AM
To: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [CESG] CESG Minutes of Meeting - Final version

Dear All,
please find attached the final version of the CESG Minutes of Meeting.
I have included only comments that help  the understanding of the text.

Concerning the discussion about MO services and SOIS-defined on board services, I would like to recall that it is not in the scope of the Minutes of Meeting to record each and every sentence which contributed to the brainstorming .
The scope of  the Minutes of Meeting is to record the conclusion of the discussion and the way forward ( decisions and actions).
Otherwise,  for the sake of fairness, all opinions and contributions by the participants to the discussion should be recorded.

The technical discussion shall be resumed in the upcoming course of actions , and the (detailed) outcome shall become part of the technical documentation.

The MoM is also available at::
https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/docs/CWE%20Private/Meetings/2019%20Spring%20Meeting%20Mountain%20View/CESG%20Meeting%2C%2010%20May%202019/d1.0-CESG-Spring19%20Minutes%20of%20Meeting_FINAL.pdf

Kind regards,
Margherita

--------------------------------------------------------------
Margherita di Giulio
Ground Station Systems Division
Backend Software Section (OPS-GSB)

European Space Agency ESA/ESOC
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany
Tel: +49-6151-902779
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int

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