[CESG] V.Vorontsov Technical Note, Orange Book CCSDS 551.1-O-1 «Correlated Data Generation»

Wed Aug 23 19:52:07 UTC 2017

Hi Mario,

Yes.  I read the whole thing.  More than twice while it was being created and while we were trying to beat it into some semblance of a proper CCSDS document.

Thanks, Peter

Sent from Peter's JPL iPhone 7

Everything should be made as simple as possible,
but not simpler.

~Albert Einstein

On Aug 23, 2017, at 1:57 AM, "Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>" <Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>> wrote:

Peter,

you quoted the first page of the OB, have you looked also at the rest?

It seems to me that the main focus of this work is largely outside the scope of MOIMS. Only once there will be an agreement to make the OB a BB, there will maybe the need for a dedicated MO Service. At that time the MOIMS may play a role.

Regards,

__Mario

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
To:        "Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>" <Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>>, "Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>" <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>
Cc:        CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group (cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>) (cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>)" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "Lee, Dennis K (332G)" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>>, "Andrews, Kenneth S (332B)" <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>>, Victor Sank <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov<mailto:victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>>
Date:        22/08/2017 19:42
Subject:        Re: [CESG] V.Vorontsov Technical Note, Orange Book CCSDS 551.1-O-1 «Correlated Data Generation»
________________________________

Ciao Mario,

I am somewhat puzzled by your statement, even if you are just making it with your "MOIMS AD Hat" on.  I am just wondering why you reject this out of hand as "nothing to do with MOIMS"?   Does this look the same this with your "CESG member Hat" on?   While the OB does talk about combining data from diverse channels, and also the signal propagation properties, it is also, quite clearly, addressing the sort of ground data processing that would appear to be right in the usual mission operations "territory".  To quote from the intro to their OB (emphasis added):

The data receiving stations may include the relative software-hardware facilities of measuring stations located on territories of several states, with a common receiving station appointed MCC. The correlated data of improved reliability generated at this MCC may be transferred to MCCs of other Space Agencies.

I suspect that this could be proposed as an "MO Service" if there was sufficient interest. Please note that I am not necessarily endorsing their request for BB status.  From a technical point of view my coding guys, in an earlier analysis, provided the following feedback.  I doubt that the intervening three years have changed their opinion, but I did ask them for an update:

As I've said before, the authors have undoubtedly worked very hard, but unfortunately have not discovered anything new.  They have developed sub-optimal techniques for problems in which the optimal techniques are already known.  Their new CCSDS document remains hard to read, both because of issues in translation, and because the authors are not familiar with the standard signal processing framework in which these problems lie.  In summary, my opinion remains the same as it did with previous versions of this work: the document does not provide any technical results of value, and comprehensibility is extremely low, so we should not be spending time on it.

I hope that the various WG chairs and other experts who are copied on this will weigh in with an informed technical opinion on the details of what is being proposed.  This is not my field of expertise so I request, and rely on, their technical feedback.

Thanks, Peter

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>>
Date: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 9:35 AM
To: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>
Cc: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, Dennis K Lee <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>" <Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>>, Kenneth Andrews <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>>
Subject: Re: [CESG] V.Vorontsov Technical Note, Orange Book CCSDS 551.1-O-1 «Correlated Data Generation»

The only thing that I understand well is that it has nothing to do with the MOIMS.

Regards,

__Mario

From:        Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
To:        "CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>\) \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>\)" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int<mailto:Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>, "Lee, Dennis K (332G)" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int<mailto:Massimo.Bertinelli at esa.int>, kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date:        21/08/2017 12:19
Subject:        [CESG] V.Vorontsov Technical Note, Orange Book CCSDS 551.1-O-1 «Correlated Data Generation»
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>
________________________________

Dear all,
During the last Technical meeting at San Antonio I had a short discussion with Prof Vorontsov, who wanted to present the next steps he would like to do within CCSDS after the issue of Roscosmos OB (Correlated Data Generation).

As there was no russian translator and the ESA staff participated via webex,  I did ask him to produce a TN in english explaining his intentions.

You will find the TN attached below. It is only 3.5 pages.

I have also included the RFM and C&S  WG Chairs because the TN addresses some of their ToRs.

Please let me have your views by 25th September  2017 cob

ciaonestor

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