[Secretariat] Re: [CESG] Re: [Cesg-all] Too many CESG emails (was CFDPv1 status update)
ccsds techsupport
ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org
Wed Jul 22 17:56:41 UTC 2015
Just an FYI - The CESG-All is moderated, and no outsiders can send an immediate e-mail to that list. If an outsider attempts to e-mail that list, and is not a member; or has previously not been added to the bypass whitelist (there is only a few addresses…mostly Secretariat staff) for that mailing list….then their post is held for moderation. I have seen situations where an outsider has attempted to e-mail a mailing list, and also directly CC’s another users e-mail address (who may have been a CESG-All member). That e-mail will be held for moderation, but the CESG-All member (who received the e-mail directly) may decide “reply to all”, and then users of the mailing list will see that reply. Hope this makes sense….
Anyways, I understand the situation. Sometimes CESG-All is used when CESG would have been the better choice. Either way though, ADs and DADs will be receiving numerous e-mails.
On Jul 22, 2015, at 12:50 PM, Shames, Peter M (312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>> wrote:
Hi Guys,
I agree entirely that this particular situation got out of hand, but I don't think we need more rules or constraints applied to the mailing lists, I just think we need to observe some reasonable email etiquette. I think that looks like this:
1. Topics that are local (within a WG) should remain local unless there is an issue. Use a WG mailing list or even a targetted list of people until there is a consensus that can be brought to a larger list.
2. Topics that are area wide will need to be discussed at least with the area exec team, that is the AD & deputy, and WG chairs and their deputies. Both SEA and SOIS have "exec" mailing lists that include these leaders. This should probably be the practice for all Areas. The CMC does something similar and the "CESG" mailing list is already the "exec" list, by default.
3. Topics that touch multiple WG in different areas, or multiple areas, can be discussed using a targetted list of people, but many will (eventually) need to be sent to the CESG list. I think the practice of holding dynamic discussions in a smaller targetted list until concensus is reached is a good one.
4. I personally believe that the CESG-ALL list should be used, for the most part, for announcements that really affect all the areas and the WGs. Examples might be working meeting changes or changes to policy documents. I do not think that there are many topics that need to be discussed at the CESG-ALL level, but others may have different opinions or examples.
As for the overall quantity of emails that an CESG member will see, even adhereing to this sort of etiquette, it will be a fair amount. The CESG is supposed to provide the teachnical leadership for CCSDS and we have been assigned responsibility for keeping not just our Areas, but the whole of the CCSDS, working smoothly and producing quality standards. We can and should do what we can to remove random "noise" from these channels, but we also have to expect to deal with the breadth of work that CCSDS is engaged in and not just our own corner of it.
2.3.2.1 General (CESG)
The CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG) is responsible for technical management across CCSDS domains and for the top-level coordination of the overall international standardization process. It ensures that all developments occur in accordance with procedures, schedules, and resources that have been negotiated with the CMC.
2.3.2.3 CESG Responsibilities
The CESG is specifically responsible for the following:
1.
a) maintaining and upholding the overall technical quality and consistency of the evolving set of CCSDS Recommended Standards and Practices;
b) providing the CCSDS-wide forum where the work programs of the Areas may be coordinated and synchronized in the context of an overall architecture for space- mission cross support and the needs of individual customers;
My suggestion is that we may benefit from taking a little time to re-state what is expected for email etiquette (something like what I provided above), from adding explicit Area-Exec mailing lists where needed tp help with the Area level local comm, but otherwise not try to control or constrain communications. A certain amount of open dialogue is essential for smooth operation.
Regards, Peter
From: <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:57 AM
To: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>>
Cc: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: [CESG] Re: [Cesg-all] Too many CESG emails (was CFDPv1 status update)
I do concur with Mario analysis (and I avoided spreading my reply also to the SESG-ALL lis :o) and for discussion at next CESG Webex.
The problem rises from the fact that sometimes replies also include additional cc's and sometimes this extra cc's are other WG's mailing lists.
So the first rule of should be avoiding the reply with additional cc's; i.e. if anybody in the CESG-ALL mailing list (only chairs in principle) consider the topic relevant for discussion in the WG, then (s)he should rather forward the mail and then report back only the conclusions. Of course this depends on personal behavior and cannot be prevented automatically but relies on auto discipline.
The second rule could be implemented by CCSDS Tech Support by setting the CESG-ALL mailing list to reject mails from non members.
As I think that the flood of mails mentioned by Mario did also include mails from non member (i.e. non chairpersons) I fear this setting is not implemented.
Best regards
Gian Paolo
From: Mario.Merri at esa.int<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>
To: Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>,
Cc: cesg-all at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-all at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date: 22/07/2015 09:36
Subject: [Cesg-all] Too many CESG emails (was CFDPv1 status update)
Sent by: cesg-all-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-all-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>
________________________________
Dear Nestor,
I do not know if the same is true for the others in the CESG-ALL distribution
list, but I have serious problems in handling the high rate of emails on this
(and other) channel.
As an example, the thread "CFDPv1 status update" resulted in more than 10
emails that were distributed to a large distribution list. I am not claiming
that the topic was not of interest, I just cannot afford to follow all
possible topics with the same intensity.
I believe we should define a rule or code of conduct to manage these
situations. One possibility could be that as soon as it is understood that
the topic cannot be resolved within a couple of emails, then the discussion
continues in a restricted group and the conclusions reported at the end to
CESG-ALL. Other options are clearly possible.
I suggest this issue is discussed at the next CESG webEx.
Regards,
__Mario
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