[SOIS-WIR] [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Kevin K Gifford
kevin.gifford at colorado.edu
Mon Oct 25 15:22:50 UTC 2021
Dear Gilles, Peter, Thomas -
There is not consensus on acceptance of the CESG PIDs for CCSDS-883-0-R-0.
-- The SOIS-WIR WG, at the WG-level, strived for consensus by working with CNES to insert CNES-desired spectrum language
-- The NASA and CSA delegations consider Jean-Luc Issler's spectrum verbiage as inappropriate and out-of-scope for the wireless architecture CCSDS-883-0-R-0 document
-- NASA and CSA, accepted the CNES RIDs to achieve consensus and to move forward within the constraints of the CCSDS process
-- CESG review of CCSDS-883-0-R-0 resulted in CNES (Issler)-spectrum verbiage removal
The SOIS WIR WG now sees this as an issue to be resolved at the CESG
-- SOIS-WIR WG followed CCSDS Agency Review RID disposition processes
-- SOIS-WIR WG worked to gain consensus for the submitted CNES/Issler RIDs
-- The CESG has provided PIDs that remove the CNES/Issler RID verbiage
-- Issler states that their is no longer SOIS-WIR WG consensus
To move forward I suggest a online meet-up to discuss with:
-- SOIS WIR WG members, including NASA and CSA project sponsors
-- Peter Shames, SEA A.D. and CESG senior member
-- Gilles Moury, CNES CESG member and Jean-Luc Issler, CNES
>From the perspective of myself as SOIS-WIR Chair:
Item-1: The "charter" or "description" of the CCSDS-883 project on the CWE is to specify a proximity wireless network communications surface architecture, spectrum allocations or recommendations are out of scope
Item-2: The CESG PIDs prescribe the statement, "all mission designers and implementers shall coordinate with the SFCG for lunar spectrum allocations" which NASA and CSA believe is the proper course of action within CCSDS
Item-3: I personally do not see why the attendant spectrum issues have not been worked within SLS-RFM and then onto the SFCG, versus the current tactic to insert out-of-scope spectrum verbiage into another WG's document. But maybe I am missing something.
Peter, Gilles, Jean-Luc: The SOIS-WIR WG meets on Tuesday, 26-Oct-2021, 0800-0900 MDT (which is 0700-0800 PDT), 1600-1700 in Toulouse.
-- Could you support meeting at this time, else I will schedule wrangle a different meet-up time?
-- Peter: If you'd like to handle in a different manner, please let me know and I'll stand down on meeting coordination
Thanks.
Kevin
________________________________
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 2:56 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org <sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Cc: Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear all,
I put Gilles Moury (in CC) in the Loop (with the attachments of my message bellow to our Wireless Working Group)
Very best regards
Jean-Luc
De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Envoyé : dimanche 24 octobre 2021 17:21
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Cc : Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Objet : Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
[+ Peter Shames, + Thomas Gannett]
________________________________
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 9:41 AM
To: sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org> <sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int> <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Subject: TR: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear CCSDS Wireless Working Group,
I would like to share some informations in case everyone in our WG would be not fully aware of, regarding 883 standard submited to CESG. I include you in the diffusion list Ignacio, since you participated to some Agency Review discussions in our WG. These informations are contained in the correspondance bellow and in the attachements.
As you could see, the majority of our agency review updated texts are proposed to be removed, that is most of the spectrum texts. As a reminder, this is not “proposed CNES text” as written bellow, but text proposed by our overall Working Group* to process the CNES Agency Review RIDs (that is most of the RIDS of the Agency Review). There is therefore not any more consensus in our WG for the moment.
To better check the importance of the texts which are proposed to be removed, you could see the attached 3 CESG RIDS of Peter Shames proposing to remove these full texts (these RIDS are available on CWE, as all the CESG RIDS, on the form of PIDs). In the attached RIDs, I added my simple personnal opinion just to share it in our WG for transparency, knowing these issues are now delt by CESG and then by CMC.
Thank you for your consideration of this message; see you soon.
Very best regards
Jean-Luc
*for exemple, the full text proposed to be removed in PID SEA 009 883 is a text from DLR, which allowed to our WG to find consensus on this part.
From: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 11:07 AM
To: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>; Shames, Peter M (JPL-312B)[JPL Employee] <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>; Teodomante Sylvain <Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr<mailto:Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr>>; Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811) <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov<mailto:raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Jean-Luc -
CESG Review of CCSDS-883-0-R-0 mandated removing any and all spectrum recommendations sans the statement, "For spectrum allocation missions must coordinate with the responsible entities (SFCG, ITU)".
-- The SOIS-WIR WG must adhere to the CESG guidance per CCSDS rules
-- All of the previously proposed CNES text regarding spectrum requirements has been removed
As a result, and per CESG guidance/mandates, all inserted CNES verbiage concerning spectrum allocation requirements and constraints is out of scope for CCSDS-883-0-R-0.
Kevin
________________________________
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:05 PM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Teodomante Sylvain <Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr<mailto:Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr>>
Subject: RE: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Kevin,
May I kindly remind you to answer to our question bellow ?
Thank you very much; VBR
Jean-Luc
De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Envoyé : lundi 4 octobre 2021 05:15
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc : Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Objet : Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Jean-Luc -
I confirm I have received your update proposal. Please let me review and discuss with NASA and CSA this upcoming week.
Thanks.
Kevin
________________________________
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 11:53 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Subject: RE: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Kevin,
Sorry for the blank/empty part in my E-mail
The CNES update proposal is in the joint extract of the 883 Blue Book
What do you think about this proposal please ?
VBR
Jean-Luc
De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Envoyé : vendredi 1 octobre 2021 16:33
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc : Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Objet : Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Jean-Luc -
>From your email below I cannot "see" any text (it is blank/empty) for Page 2-11, Page 3-3, Page 3-4, Page 3-5.
Can you "cut-and-paste" the associated paragraphs and highlight where you are suggesting the updates please?
Thanks!
Kevin
________________________________
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 12:20 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Subject: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard
Dear Kevin,
We had discussions in CNES, and wondered it would be not too late to propose in the upcomming 883 Blue Book the replacement of the word “communication” by the word “communication and navigation” or “communication/navigation”, in the following paragraphs of the book. This would be consistent with SFCG 32-2R2 which allocate the concerned band for these 2 services.
What do you think about this request please ? Sorry for this late question; Have a nice day.
Best regards
Jean-Luc
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