[SLS-CC] [EXTERNAL] reminder AI VLFs

Tue Aug 2 07:51:08 UTC 2022

thanks Greg for the feedback.

Based on my discussion with the colleagues, indeed the ESA input is meant 
just to cover ESA EO/SCI mission scenarios, for which there is classical 
TC/TM. See also some clarifications to concerns 1--4, below in red.
The input is not a general ruling out of VLFs, but rather we look forward 
to receiving further inputs from the WGs for identifying useful scenarios 
(either from our colleagues or other agencies).

But let's discuss the topic after the vacation period

Andrea

ESA - European Space Agency
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 56 53439, M +31 6 484 56 527

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/ 

From:   "Kazz, Greg (US 312B)" <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     "Andrea.Modenini at esa.int" <Andrea.Modenini at esa.int>, "C&S WG" 
<sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc:     "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, 
"Andrews, Kenneth S (US 332B)" <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Shames, 
Peter M (US 312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date:   02-08-22 03:49
Subject:        Re: [EXTERNAL] [SLS-CC] reminder AI VLFs

Hi Andrea,

Both Peter Shames and I share the following concerns with regard to the 
ESA VLF mission analysis attached. We do not find that presentation to 
have made the case to dismiss the possibility of creating a CCSDS VLF 
Project. 
Below are our concerns:

1.      The ESA study only addressed downlink only.
2.      The ESA study built into their assumptions a very small set of 
fixed packet sizes would be used with a “cookie cutter” sort of data => 
packet => frame approach
The CHIME case is indeed fixed length packet. GAIA is instead variable 
length packets, and we provided average results, based on the packet 
length distribution transmitted into fixed-length frames. Both satellites 
have different instruments and kind of data streams, encapsulated into 
CCSDS packet. We have several scenarios with variable length CCSDS packets 
(like EO Sentinel missions) but were providing the same conclusions. So, 
they were not included for making the presentation lighter.
3.      The ESA study didn’t look at any sort of mixture of data sizes, 
data directions, etc. 
In terms of mixture of data size, for ESA EO/SCI missions, I believe we 
covered. Mixture of data directions, I agree with you: our EO/SCI missions 
do not perform that. Probably different story is for future Lunar/Mars 
missions (not part of this presentation)
4.      Many missions use more than one instrument, data packet size, and 
link direction, so none of these use cases were factored into the ESA 
analysis.
 See previous points. 

Given the above, our conclusion, is that this ESA study was too 
constrained and quite frankly unrepresentative of other mission space 
links in general. Certainly not representative of the emerging Moon and 
Mars in-situ missions.

On the “use Ethernet instead of Space Packet” topic, we also have many 
concerns, for the following reasons:

1.      Ethernet is a well implemented link layer protocol (that his study 
claims that it could be bundled inside another link layer protocol)
2.      Ethernet has its own globally unique link layer end-point 
addresses (MAC address), this is actually an advantage over APIDs, but 
different than what Space Packet currently provides.
3.      In order to take advantage of the MAC address unique features we 
ought to be adopting some sort of path/routing that uses that, but this is 
then a sort of “layer violation”, that requires further analysis, and 
probably also needs much more careful thought and new MAC layer addressing 
/ path machinery
4.      Note that MAC addresses in Ethernet links support switching, and 
not routing.
5.      Ethernet frames introduce length constraints that our missions do 
not get involved with when they use space packets.

I know Europe is starting it’s month out of the office very soon. Let’s 
discuss this topic further when everyone is available again.

Thanks,
Greg
From: "Andrea.Modenini at esa.int" <Andrea.Modenini at esa.int>
Date: Monday, August 1, 2022 at 8:17 AM
To: C&S WG <sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, "Kazz, 
Greg (US 312B)" <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Andrews, Kenneth S (US 332B)" 
<kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [SLS-CC] reminder AI VLFs

Dear C&S WG, 
 concerning the AI on VLFs, I received just a single input from ESA as in 
attachment.
It refers to Earth Observation and SCI missions using RF links only: it is 
shown that VLFs advantages are quite low.
Before closing the AI, given the vacation period, could you let me know by 
9th September if your agency plans to submit any input for the action item 
in subject, and when?
As discussed during Spring 2022, it would be useful to have such inputs 
well before Fall meeting 2022, for finalising the concept paper.
Otherwise, in absence of use cases, I see difficult to proceed in having a 
project for VLFs.
@Bern, Greg: if you could pool your WGs as well.
Andrea

ESA - European Space Agency 
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 56 53439, M +31 6 484 56 527 

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/ 

From:        Nicola Maturo/estec/ESA 
To:        "Andrea Modenini" <Andrea.Modenini at esa.int>, "Kazz, Greg J 
(312B)" <Greg.J.Kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" 
<bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, "kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov" 
<kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Date:        27-07-22 17:05 
Subject:        RE: [SLS-CC] reminder AI VLFs 

Dear Andrea, Greg, Edwards and Ken;

Please find attached ESA input on the VLF topic.

Regards,

Nicola

HE Space for ESA - European Space Agency 

Nicola Maturo, Ph.D.
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 

TT&C and PDT Systems and Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
Radio Frequency Systems Division (TEC-ES)
Directorate of Technology, Engineering and Quality (TEC) 
European Space Research and Technology Centre (ESTEC)
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
nicola.maturo at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 565 3885 

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/

From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> On Behalf Of 
Andrea.Modenini--- via SLS-CC
Sent: 12 July 2022 14:14
To: Space Link Coding & Synchronization Working Group 
<sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: Kazz, Greg J (312B) <Greg.J.Kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>; Edwards, Bernard L. 
(GSFC-5600) <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>
Subject: [SLS-CC] reminder AI VLFs

Dear C&S WG, 
a kind reminder for the deadline of the AI about providing use cases for 
VLFs. 
Please send your input by 27th July (with CC Bern, Greg, and Ken). 

Regards 

ESA - European Space Agency 
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 56 53439, M +31 6 484 56 527 

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/ 

From:        Andrea Modenini/estec/ESA 
To:        "Space Link Coding & Synchronization Working Group" <
sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org> 
Cc:        "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, 
"Lee, Dennis K (332G)" <Dennis.K.Lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Kazz, Greg J (312B)" 
<Greg.J.Kazz at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Date:        30-05-22 12:19 
Subject:        Re: [SLS-CC] Spring 2022 - MoM and input for SLS to CESG 

Dear all, 
for the C&S Spring MoM 2022, I have just received a few comments that I 
have implemented. 

You can find in attachment the final PDF file, that I will upload on CWE, 
and, for your convenience, the .doc file with the track changes. 

Finally, I reminder that the first AIs (use cases for VLFs) is due by July 
2022, so please send your inputs (with CC Bern, Greg, and Ken) no later 
than 27th July 2022. 

Kind Regards 

[attachment "SLS-CS Spring 2022 MoM_final.pdf" deleted by Andrea 
Modenini/estec/ESA] [attachment "SLS-CS Spring 2022 
MoM_track_changes.docx" deleted by Andrea Modenini/estec/ESA] 

ESA - European Space Agency 
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 56 53439, M +31 6 484 56 527 

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/ 

From:        Andrea Modenini/estec/ESA 
To:        "Space Link Coding & Synchronization Working Group" <
sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org> 
Cc:        "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, 
"Lee, Dennis K (332G)" <Dennis.K.Lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Kazz, Greg J (312B)" 
<Greg.J.Kazz at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Date:        18-05-22 09:12 
Subject:        [SLS-CC] Spring 2022 - MoM and input for SLS to CESG 

Dear colleagues, 
you can find in attachment the draft MoM of the C&S WG meetings, including 
the joint meetings with SLP, RFM, and OPT. 
In attachment there is also a powerpoint of the input that I would like to 
send to SLS AD for the CESG meeting about having an OpenISL project. 

Could you send me your comments no later than 24th EOB? 

For Bern, Dennis, and Greg, can you pool your WG as well for comments? The 
relevant content for your WGs is as follows: 
RFM: Section 3 of MoM + AI list + Powerpoint 
OPT: Section 1 of MoM  + AI list 
SLP: Section 1, 2 and 3 of MoM + AI list + Powerpoint 

Regards 

[attachment "SLS-CS Spring 2022 MoM.docx" deleted by Andrea 
Modenini/estec/ESA] [attachment "Annex - SLS - activity for the 
implementation of an OpenISL.pptx" deleted by Andrea Modenini/estec/ESA] 

ESA - European Space Agency 
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer 
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 56 53439, M +31 6 484 56 527 

https://atpi.eventsair.com/ttc-2022/ 
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