[Sis-dtn] RE: Quick comments: [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)

Tue Nov 25 12:39:08 UTC 2014

I'm pulling in the MIA and DTN lists here.

? My responses to some of Gian Paolo's comments inline below.

                        --keith

From: osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de [mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 5:36 AM
To: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int; Scott, Keith L.
Cc: tomg at aiaa.org
Subject: AW: Quick comments: [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)

Hi Gian Paolo,
Thank you very much for your inputs. The DTN part was written by the DTN group, but I will check it with them.
Thanks also for all  the others recommendations, I will fix/check all of them.
Best Regards
Osvaldo

Von: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int> [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int]
Gesendet: Montag, 24. November 2014 17:30
An: Scott, Keith L.; Peinado, Osvaldo Luis
Cc: Tom Gannett
Betreff: Quick comments: [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)

Keith, Osvaldo
        here below a few preliminary quick comments.
You may want to consider them before CESG poll starts.
Regards

Gian Paolo

In section 2.1 I would reword this sentence from:
CFDP supports two classes. Each of the classes can be supported over the DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]) and DTN Licklider Transport Protocol (LTP) (reference [18]).
To e.g.:
CFDP supports two classes. Each of the classes can be supported over the DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]). DTN may eventually operate over the Licklider Transport Protocol (LTP) (reference [18]).

? I think the question here is how we think voice might be layered (specifically, if we think voice might run DIRECTLY over LTP or not).  From the fact that CFDP seems to be the important bit here, we might say something like:

?  CFDP supports the following classes, both of which can be supported by the DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]).

? And leave it to the mission designer to decide exactly what CFDP runs over (BP, Encapsulation, ...)

Is the terminology <DTN Bundle Protocol >, <DTN Licklider Transport Protocol> correct?

? I hadn't really thought about it too much, but I think this terminology is pretty good (though the reference to LTP was removed in my suggested text above).  DTN is the label for 'the stack' and Bundle Protocol identifies the particular protocol.  We could say something like 'Bundle Protocol for CCSDS' (the name of the BP for CCSDS Book) but I think the context, coupled with the reference, make it clear what we're talking about.

Clause 4.2.2.2.2 Advanced Orbiting Systems (AOS) Virtual Channel Access (VCA), AOS [24]   Bitstream, and AOS [24]  Insert services should be used to transmit voice and audio data.
I think that this clause should be reworded to be clearer to e.g.
The following services of AOS [24] should be used to transmit voice and audio data: Virtual Channell Access (VCA), Bitstream, and Insert.

? I might have said something like

o   Voice and audio data should be transferred using (one or more of ???) the following services: Advanced Orbiting Systems (AOS, [24]) Virtual Channel Access (VCA), AOS Bitstream Service, and AOS Insert.

o   Not sure about 'using one of the following' vs. 'using the following' - if we're thinking these types of transmissions are typically single-hop then 'one of...' will work.  If a single voice transmission might use multiple transmission mechanisms then 'using the following' (or using one or more of the following) is probably better.

Note also that the VCA Service is also offered by Telemetry (CCSDS 132.0-B) and Telecommand (CCSDS 232.0-B), therefore a user willing to use VCA should not be limited to AOS.

Clause 4.3.5  Files may be transmitted by any general file transmission protocol, e.g., via CFDP Class 1 or Class 2 (reference [17]), over CCSDS links or over DTN protocol (references [18] and [19]).
I think here reference 18 should be removed as CFDP would never interface LTP directly.

? Why not?  Once could do CFDP unreliable over LTP Red, for example, in order to write a very small and simple (if non-class-1-supporting) CFDP implementation.  I don't feel too strongly about this one way or the other, especially since this text is in the 'example' clause of the sentence and is therefore (the way I would read the document) not normative.  It might be better even to separate the example into a NOTE (NOTE: File transfer may for example use CFDP ....)  We also don't have a CFDP over LTP UT layer spec.

Clause 4.5.5  Frequencies and channelization: If a direct space link to spacecraft is available or if the MCC communicates using a space link to other MCC, the CCSDS standard frequency (reference [20][21][22]) should be used.
The 3 references mentioned there are the 3 books for Proximity-1. Only [20] addresses the physical layer for "proximity space-to-space links". Since MCC is mentioned I guess that Proximity-1 is not the only candidate.
Please clarify which scenarios are really addressed by this clause and coordinate with Enrico Vassalo (SLS-RFM chair) for the applicable standards.
Moreover, is it correct to address frequencies in normative clause without identifying the complete stack from the voice/audio application down to the physical layer?
Note that if you want to consider the complete stack there are at least Encapsulation Service, TM, TC, AOS to be cited.

In 5.1 the sentence <In cases involving landers, rovers, orbiting constellations, and orbiting relays, proximity links should be considered (references [20], [21], [22].) > is correct but how is this visible to the voice/audio application that is recommended to run over IPoC, DTN or File Xfer? Can the voice/audio application be really aware of the details of the layers immediately below those of the expected services (i.e. IPoC, DTN, CFDP, etc.)?

From:        "Scott, Keith L." <kscott at mitre.org<mailto:kscott at mitre.org>>
To:        "Secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:Secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org>" <Secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:Secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "Thomas        Gannett" <tomg at aiaa.org<mailto:tomg at aiaa.org>>,
Cc:        "sis-mia at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-mia at mailman.ccsds.org>" <sis-mia at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-mia at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "CCSDS Engineering        Steering Group - CESG Exec \(cesg at mailman.ccsds.org\<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org\>)" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "Osvaldo Peinado \(osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de\<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de\>)" <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>
Date:        24/11/2014 14:54
Subject:        [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)
Sent by:        cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>
________________________________

CCSDS Secretariat,

The SIS Area, on the recommendation of the Voice and Audio Communications Working Group, resolves (via SIS resolution SIS-R-2014-11-003) to submit the attached Red Book for document processing and CESG polling to release the document for agency review.

I believe that Cynthia Sachs-Bustos should have the sources for the drawing in the book.  If not then we can provide them.

                        Very respectfully,

                        --keith

Dr. Keith Scott                                                                                           Office: +1.703.983.6547
Chief Engineer, J86A                                                                               Fax:      +1.703.983.7142
Communications Network Engineering & Analysis Email: kscott at mitre.org<mailto:kscott at mitre.org>
The MITRE Corporation<http://www.mitre.org/>                                                                        M/S H300
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From: Keith Scott [mailto:keithlscott at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:44 PM
To: Scott, Keith L.
Subject: Fwd: Voice and audio communication book for CESG review

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>
Date: Nov 19, 2014 5:29 AM
Subject: Voice and audio communication book for CESG review
To: <tomg at aiaa.org<mailto:tomg at aiaa.org>>
Cc: <aid at mcc.rsa.ru<mailto:aid at mcc.rsa.ru>>, <keithlscott at gmail.com<mailto:keithlscott at gmail.com>>, <cynthia at sachs-bustos.com<mailto:cynthia at sachs-bustos.com>>

Hi Tom
As we talk with Keith, here is the book ready for your magic.
We have several review cycles with Cynthia before the meeting in London and I got today all the final inputs from the WG member.
Thanks a lot for your support
Best Regards
Osvaldo

Dr. Osvaldo Peinado
Ground Operations Manager
German Space Operations Center (GSOC)
Tel:  +49 8153 28 3010<tel:%2B49%208153%2028%203010>
Fax:  +49 8153 28 1456<tel:%2B49%208153%2028%201456>
Mobile: +491729410099<tel:%2B491729410099>
German Aerospace Center (DLR)
Oberpfaffenhofen
82234 Wessling
Germany
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