[Sea-sa] Do SCCC and DVB-S2 also support Ranging and D-DOR?

Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int
Tue Mar 9 11:37:20 UTC 2021

Dear Peter,
        please find here a reply coordinated with SLS experts on the 

1) Ranging is not affected by the coding schemes but rather by the used 
2)  higher order modulations (HOMs) cannot be used with conventional 
ranging or PN ranging per say. HOMs are used by 131.2-B, 131.3-B , and 
3)  the 3 standards (131.2-B, 131.3-B , and 431.0-B) can be used with 
telemetry ranging (that in turns need PN ranging uplink). 
4) RF & Modulation standard 401.0-B includes (in addition to rec's 
addressing PN ranging) two recommendations for ranging: 
4a) one very generic recommendation from which ECSS ranging standard and 
NASA deep space ranging standards are derived/allowed as a subset of 
transparent ranging 
4b) one recommendation  on telemetry ranging. This recommendation 
references PN ranging and It is based on PN ranging on the uplink with PN 
regeneration on-board. This scheme is compatible with any downlink 
modulation scheme 
5) RF & Modulation standard 401.0-B includes also a recommendations for 
Delta DOR transmission 
6) Delta-DOR is affected by HOMs as  conventional ranging or PN ranging. 
[DDOR transmission as is today in 401 (update coming soon) requires 
"unmodulated" tones and in some cases with a coherent ratio from the 
carrier. The easy way to generate them is with a phase modulation of a 
residual carrier. Again this is in principle against SCCC/DBV-S2/VCM a la 
NASA. However, one can have a second transmitter to generate the tones 
that are then simply mixed with the HOMs before the TWTA/SSPA.] 

Moreover, we are puzzled by the page with Table 6-10. 
With respect to the draft Table we find quite a risk of ambiguity with an 
(unneeded) wish of showing rough details that can easily be 
If there is the condition "IF RF Link" for PN Ranging, then (at least) the 
condition "IF Optical Link" should be present for optical ranging. 
The table calls TD-CSTS i.e. "CCSDS 922.2-B-1  Cross Support Transfer 
Service—Tracking Data Service, Recommended Standard, Issue 1" (available 
at https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/922x2b1.pdf ) 
This document does not reference any ranging standard (even the 401.0)! 
CCSDS 922.2-B-1 only references Tracking Data Message. Issue 2. 
Recommendation for Space Data System Standards (Blue Book), CCSDS 
503.0-B-2.(available at https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/503x0b2.pdf ); i.e. 
TD-CSTS does not care on how the tracking data are produced. 
The reference to 401 is then ambiguous: does it refers to the 3 
recommendations mentioned above (bullets 4a, 4b, and 5)? 
it looks this should be remarked as well. 

Best regards

Gian Paolo

From:   "Shames, Peter M (US 312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     "Gian Paolo Calzolari" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, "SLS - 
Space Link Services Area" <sls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc:     "SEA-SA" <sea-sa at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:   05-03-21 21:52
Subject:        Do SCCC and DVB-S2 also support Ranging and D-DOR?

Gippo, et al,
In the last SAWG discussion on the content to be revised in the SCCS-ARD 
the question came up as to whether SCCC and DVB-S2 also support the 
traditional ranging and D-DOR services.
Can you guys provide an answer for this?   See attached draft of Table 
6-10 space link radiometric services.
Thanks, Peter
 [attachment "SCCS-ARD Table 6-10 Radiometric.pdf" deleted by Gian Paolo 

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