[Sea-sa] [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Wed Apr 10 20:15:52 UTC 2019

Sam, Mario, and Mehran,

Thank you for finally providing these inputs.  I have reviewed them and I think I understand where you are coming from and what changes you wish to effect in this SOIS document.

To be completely frank, I think that you are still trying to push what are, in effect, Area Charter changes by what you are proposing.  This document was intended to compare the features of the EDS and its “eco-system” and the MAL and its eco-system, at a technical level.  You seem to be asking for this document to be turned into a description of why the MO MAL should become the supported on-board environment, and that SOIS and the CCSDS on-board architecture should become fully compliant with the MAL.

I understand that this is your strong desire, but I again have to point out that this is not at all the point of this document, nor is it supported by the charter for your area.  In point of fact, I just reviewed that Area Charter again, which is published in the CCSDS Org & Proc Yellow Book, CCSDS A02.1-Y-4, and I do not believe that the Charter, as documented, covers spacecraft on-board services and functions.  As stated in the YB, MOIMS covers the operations of spacecraft and the utilization of spacecraft derived data, but makes absolutely no mention of spacecraft on-board applications and services.  The spacecraft on-board domain is solely the province of SOIS.

As I said before, if you do wish to propose any such Charter changes the proper place to address that is in the CESG and CMC, and not in edits to this document.  That said, this is my opinion and not one that has been reviewed by the SOIS Area, the other members of the SEA SAWG, nor the CESG itself.  I am copying this reply to the SEA SAWG and also to the SOIS AD.  I expect them to reply for themselves.

If need be this issue, which is in my opinion an attempt to make an Area Charter change, will have to be brought to the CESG for discussion.

Best regards, Peter

From: Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 8:51 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int" <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Hi Peter,

We've gone through the comments that Mehran, Mario and myself raised and have produced a consolidated output (attached). Where possible we have updated the text rather than just comment as we thought that would be more productive.

What is the plan regarding updating the text in response to the list you and I worked on?

Best regards,
Sam

On 10/04/2019 00:55, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:
Mario, Sam, and Mehran,

This document was originally sent in for CESG review on 8 June 2018.  The revised version that the SOIS and SEA SAWG agree is adequate and accurate was sent to you on 8 Feb 2019.  We believed that we had dispositioned all of the RIDs in a manner that was suitable and appropriate.  There were delays.  And extensions, and now more delays.  It is now two more weeks since I least heard anything.

Please let’s get this wrapped up and out the door.  It is, after all, just a Yellow Book report.  It is not the UN Charter or a Brexit deal.  Let’s get it done so we can all get on to more productive work.

Thanks, Peter

From: Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Date: Thursday, March 28, 2019 at 2:13 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>
Cc: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Hi Peter,

Just to let you know that myself, Mario and Mehran are working to provide a consolidated set of comments in the document.

It should be with you very shortly.

Best regards,
Sam.

On 14/03/2019 21:09, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:
Hi Mehran,

Somehow we seem to have a real disconnect between what this document is intended to do, which is to document the features and relationships, such as they are, between SOIS and MOIMS,  and what you seem to be trying to do with your requested changes to this document, which is to change the SOIS program of work and to shift CCSDS Area boundaries.  Any such changes to Areas, their programs of work, and their interfaces is not handled in this way within CCSDS.  It should be handled by some sort of formal request, to the CESG as a whole and then the CMC, to make such changes.  This work is being carried out in the present context and not some future one.

In the original round of reviews I very carefully extracted all of the comments from you, Mario, and others who participated, and inserted them into a spreadsheet.  That spreadsheet and proposed resolutions was then reviewed with all of the participants from the SEA SAWG, adjusted as needed, and then reviewed with the SOIS and MOIMS stakeholders.  I think you got a copy of it a while ago.  It has all of the identified issues and all of the proposed resolutions.  The final spreadsheet (attached here) was used to drive the edits to the document.  It has inputs from you and Mario, inputs from me, and some added notes from the tech editor (KT) I had help me create the final doc.  The final edited document was again reviewed by the SAWG and the stakeholders.

With a few exceptions raised by Sam, which have since been resolved, everyone else who has reviewed this document concurs with what it says and is ready to approve it.  That includes the SAWG (which includes Roger Thompson and Ray Krosley), the SOIS crew, Sam Cooper, and Richard Melvin.  At this point you appear to be the sole dissenter.  And, based on your comments, you are dissenting not on the basis of technical issues with what is stated, but apparently based on a desire to change the way that these two areas work and interact.  I think that this is an inappropriate way to approach this situation and am asking you to reconsider.

If you do wish to tackle this very different problem of changing the programs of work in SOIS, and shifting the SOIS / MOIMS boundary, I suggest that you do it using the normal CCSDS channels for such requests, i.e. the CESG and CMC.  And I ask that you stand-aside and let this document be published in its current form.  See A02x1y0c4, Sec 5.1.2, on Consensus:
An individual is responsible for expressing concerns; the group is responsible for resolving them. The group decides whether a concern is legitimate; the individual decides whether to concur with the group, block, or stand aside. All significant issues and their disposition must be documented and accepted by the group.
Are you willing to stand-aside on this matter?

Thanks, Peter

From: "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 11:26 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Hi Peter,

I have now finally managed to review the commented version by Sam.
I compared it to the comments I had raised on the version from 07. June 2018. I have also attached that version for your reference.

Some of my comments are still not implemented. I put them back in this new version of the document (it is now the third time, I am putting the same comments in the same document). I guess it would be more effective, if the author does not agree with a comment, to leave it in and provide an answer rather than me going back each time and checking if my previously raised comments are or are not implemented.

Some of the comments were implemented through the new text in red (added by Sam?).

My biggest concern is the recommendation part. I think it does make sense to align the API/Interface specification part of EDS with MAL service specification.
At least some effort shall be put in doing it for one concrete device and comparing the two XMLs.

The current document concludes, the scope is different, hence it is ok to leave everything as is and translate from one to other.
I would personally rather see two XML documents defined for one example device (e.g. a star camera with operations such as gotoMode xyz, switch on/off, ...) and a technical assessment if it makes sense or not to align the keywords of MAL and EDS.

My recommendation would be that SOIS EDS remains at hardware interface definition level and delegates the specification of API/Services to be done as on-baord MO Service specifications. For this maybe MAL would need to be extended to also be able to capture the concerns such as timing, etc.
Alternatively the EDS and MAL shall be brought so much in line that the common keywords of the XML schemas are equal for the service/api specification part.

Regards
Mehran

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>
Cc:        "Mario.Merri at esa.int"<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int> <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Date:        12/03/2019 18:44
Subject:        Re: [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets
________________________________

Hi Mehran.

If it works for you to add your notes to Sam please do so. Maybe that will avoid addressing the same topic twice.   I can sort out what we have agreed to already from whatever you add (at least I hope I can AND that it is not too cumbersome).

Please get this to me no later than CoB Thursday, 14 March.  This is already long overdue.

Thanks, Peter

From: "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>
Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 10:01 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Fw: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Hi Peter,

I promised Mario to do a review already last Friday.

I feel very bad, that I didn't manage yet. I will try to do this and send you a feedback this week.
I started to look but it is now a bit difficult. There is the red-lined version that you sent. Then there is the commented version of Sam and loads of email exchange between the two of you.

Would it be ok, if I take the commented version of Sam and add my comments (if any) on top of it?

Regards
Mehran
----- Forwarded by Mehran Sarkarati/esoc/ESA on 12/03/2019 17:54 -----

From:        Mario Merri/esoc/ESA
To:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov        ><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov    >
Cc:        Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>, Roger Thompson <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Date:        08/03/2019 16:00
Subject:        Re: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets
________________________________

Hi Peter,

Mehran and/or I will provide you additional comments by the deadline.

Regards,

__Mario

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        "Mario.Merri at esa.int"<mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int> <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Cc:        Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>, Roger Thompson <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Date:        07/03/2019 19:08
Subject:        Re: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets
________________________________

Ciao Mario,

I have Sam's inputs and we have identified acceptable resolutions for all of his concerns as of 28 Feb 19.

It's been two weeks since you asked for an extension.  Is there any progress on this from your end?

Thanks, Peter

From: Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 5:08 PM
To: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Cc: Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>, Roger Thompson <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Subject: Re: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Mario,

Ok.  Please get response to me no later than 15 March 2019.  I really need to get this wrapped up.  Meanwhile I will process Sam's inputs, once I have them actually in hand.

Peter

From: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 4:19 PM
To: Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>, Roger Thompson <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>
Subject: Re: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Peter,

unfortunately please extend the deadline by at least 2 weeks as due to workload we were not able to process this.

Thanks,

__Mario

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>, "Roger Thompson" <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>
Cc:        SEA-SA <sea-sa at mailman.ccsds.org><mailto:sea-sa at mailman.ccsds.org>, "CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org><mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:        20/02/2019 21:45
Subject:        Re: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets
________________________________

Dear MOIMS & SOIS colleagues,

I requested feedback on this by 22 Feb 2019.  Are you going to have replies and feedback by then?  I want to get this off my plate.

For those who have lost the thread, this is intended as the resolution for the Condition raised on CESG-P-2018-05-010, see https://public.ccsds.org/polls/Lists/CESGP201805010/AllItems.aspx.

Thanks, Peter

From: Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Friday, February 8, 2019 at 5:04 PM
To: Mario Merri <Mario.Merri at esa.int><mailto:Mario.Merri at esa.int>, "Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int"<mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int> <Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int><mailto:Mehran.Sarkarati at esa.int>, Sam Cooper <sam at brightascension.com><mailto:sam at brightascension.com>, Roger Thompson <roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com><mailto:roger.s.thompson at btinternet.com>, Dan Smith <danford.s.smith at nasa.gov><mailto:danford.s.smith at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov><mailto:jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-5610)" <glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov><mailto:glenn.p.rakow at nasa.gov>, Richard Melvin <Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk><mailto:Richard.Melvin at scisys.co.uk>
Cc: SEA-SA <sea-sa at mailman.ccsds.org><mailto:sea-sa at mailman.ccsds.org>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org><mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: SEA SAWG proposed edits to the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets

Dear All,

As reported during the CESG Telecon on 7 Feb 2019, the Systems Engineering Area (SEA), using resources of the Systems Architecture Working Group (SAWG), has completed a review of the SOIS document, CCSDS 870.10-Y-1, MO Services and SOIS Electronic Data Sheets and proposed a set of updates to resolve differences of opinion between SOIS and MOIMS and clarify the relationships.  This result was derived using meeting and email discussions within the SAWG and particularly with representatives of the two different points of view (Roger Thompson and Ramon Krosley) and the original author of the document (Richard Melvin).  Before sending this document out more widely these parties were polled and they concurred in this release, with two minor issues noted.  Those issues have been dealt with in this version.

Three files are attached:

1)      A "clean" version with changes accepted, but revised text left in red

2)      A raw version with all of the tracked changes visible

3)      A spreadsheet extracted from the marked up PDF files, along with the audit trail of discussions leading to resolution

Since this is, in effect, a cross-area "working group" of sorts I would like to ask all of those who have a stake in this to review the document and provide feedback in two weeks, by 22 Feb 2019.  I'd like to use a consensus process over email and am hoping we can wrap this up quickly.  We will still need to process the final result through the CESG for approval to publish.

Thanks, Peter

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