[Moims-dai] FW: [EXTERNAL] RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Tue Jul 27 10:01:28 UTC 2021

Dear all

Peter has reminded us that we hoped to make a decision on the Control Authority book last week. 

We really should make a decision today if possible, with John’s guidance. It is very good that progress is being made on SANA registration in ISO.

Regards

..David

From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> 
Sent: 27 July 2021 01:21
To: david at giaretta.org
Cc: Asmar, Sami W (US 9110) <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov>; 'Mike Kearney' <kearneysolutions at gmail.com>; garrett at his.com; 'Blackwood, Michael D' <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076
Importance: High

Hi David,

Hope things are going well.  When we had this last exchange you were going to explore this topic with the DAI WG.  Did you get a resolution on a path forward?

Reason I am asking is that ISO is still banging on their tin cup about this 13764 standard, whether it is going to be updated, and the status of the SANA as an “official”, in their eyes, Registration Authority.  You guys need to do your part, if you wish to. 

In any event, I am working with Sami and Mike B to make the ISO aware of the SANA and to get it properly registered as an ISO Registration Authority.  We have  all sorts of documentation of what the SANA is, how it operates, how it is to be used by WGs and users, and what sorts of info it contains.  I do not think that is an issue unless they choose to make it one.

So what is the gist of the DAI sentiment on this?  Are you moving ahead, or … ?

Thanks, Peter

From: David Giaretta <david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> >
Date: Monday, July 12, 2021 at 10:08 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> >
Cc: Sami Asmar <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >, Mike Kearney <kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> >, John Garrett <garrett at his.com <mailto:garrett at his.com> >, Michael Blackwood <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Hi Peter

Thanks for this information. What you suggest sounds very sensible.

We have our weekly video meeting tomorrow and will decide what we would like to do and whether we need to take up your kind offer of help. It sounds as if, one way or another, this can be resolved relatively quickly. 

Very good to know that SANA will be full ISO.

Regards

..David

From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> > 
Sent: 12 July 2021 17:54
To: david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> ; 'Blackwood, Michael D' <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >
Cc: Asmar, Sami W (US 9110) <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >; 'Mike Kearney' <kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> >; garrett at his.com <mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Hi David, et al,

If you still see value in the 13764 document then my recommendation is that you adopt the identical language and approach already published in the 320.0-M-7 document to update your 630.0-B-1 document.  I think it will take someone an hour or two to do the cut and paste task.

If you do  not want the document, and to have this sort of org/contact structure defined, then make it silver, your choice.

Reach out if you want help with this.

We will, because we must, pursue the formalization of the SANA as an ISO  recognized Registration Authority.

Cheers, Peter

From: David Giaretta <david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> >
Date: Monday, July 12, 2021 at 8:13 AM
To: Michael Blackwood <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >
Cc: Sami Asmar <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >, Mike Kearney <kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> >, Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> >, John Garrett <garrett at his.com <mailto:garrett at his.com> >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Hi Michael

John came up with another suggestion. If using SANA is not an option we could withdraw 13764 from ISO and make the CCSDS document Silver.

Regards

..David

From: david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org>  <david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> > 
Sent: 12 July 2021 11:36
To: 'Blackwood, Michael D' <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >; 'garrett at his.com' <garrett at his.com <mailto:garrett at his.com> >
Cc: 'Sami W (JPL-9110) Asmar [JPL Employee] (sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> )' <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >; 'Mike Kearney' <kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> >; Peter Shames (Peter.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:Peter.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov> ) <Peter.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:Peter.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov> >
Subject: RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Dear Michael

We discussed this and the key question seems to be whether CCSDS SANA, which seems to be a registration authority, will be registered with ISO. If this is the case then we can quickly change the Control Authority book (13764) to use SANA. That would cause minimal issues for existing users of 13764.

Would that work?

Regards

..David

From: Blackwood, Michael D <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> > 
Sent: 07 July 2021 20:33
To: david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> ; garrett at his.com <mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Cc: Sami W (JPL-9110) Asmar [JPL Employee] (sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> ) <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >; Mike Kearney <kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> >
Subject: FW: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076
Importance: High

Dear David and John,

I hope you are both doing well. We have run into an issue with CCSDS 630.0-B-1 (ISO 13764). I had hoped we could avoid any issues as the ISO hadn’t been enforcing their policy on registration authorities, but that doesn’t seem possible anymore. The following from Andy Dryden sums it up fairly well.

Out of these two, the main one I might need a hand with is 13764.  This is an old CCSDS document that uses CCSDS as a Registration Authority for application and assignment of identifiers.  Normally when an external organization’s standards get adopted by ISO, if a Registration Authority is involved, then ISO also would need to approve a candidate to serve as the Registration Authority with committee approval and also by Technical Management Board.  Although the enforcement on this hasn’t really existed for many years, this might be an opportunity to address now as part of this clean-up initiative.  I understand there is a new Committee Manager for SC13, if it might be possible for SC13 to consider whether this standard is really even needed any longer as an ISO adoption of the CCSDS standard (now 25 years old) and to potentially withdraw 13764.  If SC13 wishes to keep 13764, we will need to request SC13 to initiate a revision to bring it in line with Directives Part 1 (namely removing all reference to CCSDS as the Registration Authority, which honestly would probably be more challenge than it’s worth), and for SC13 to approve a Registration Authority candidate (CCSDS) and for CCSDS to sign a Registration Authority Agreement with ISO.  Please let me know how I might be able to help in this follow-up.  I’m not sure in this specific case how much extra value there might be in having the ISO version of this document, and potentially a bit of work in updating the record if SC13 wants to keep this one.

I wanted to let you know what was going on and see if you had an opinion on how we should proceed.

Best regards,

Michael Blackwood
CCSDS Secretariat

mblackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:mblackwood at asrcfederal.com> 

o: (301) 837-3901

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From: IBIDO Monica <ibido at iso.org <mailto:ibido at iso.org> > 
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 3:52 AM
To: Asmar Sami Mr <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >
Cc: Blackwood, Michael D <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >; Zhou Yuxia Ms <zhou_yuxia at 163.com <mailto:zhou_yuxia at 163.com> >; Forselius Richard Dr <rich.j.forselius at lmco.com <mailto:rich.j.forselius at lmco.com> >; Carnahan Christopher Mr. <chris.carnahan at aia-aerospace.org <mailto:chris.carnahan at aia-aerospace.org> >
Subject: RE: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076
Importance: High

[External Email] 

  _____  

Dear Sami,

I am following-up on ISO 13764.  As far as I know there is no updating ?

The ISO Council Resolution 9/2017 requires all Registration Authorities to have signed RA Agreements by 2022.  If a Registration Authority is involved , we would need to fulfill several steps before 2022 with the old standards to be revised to become compliant with ISO/IEC Directives Part 1, and old RRA agreements to be re-confirmed and renewed accordingly. All this with the involvement of the committee and the ISO TMB (please see the highlighted part of Mr Dryden email). If it is the case we really need to  make progress.

We look forward to your feedback and we remain at disposal if you need help.

Best regards

Monica

From: Carnahan, Chris <Chris.Carnahan at aia-aerospace.org <mailto:Chris.Carnahan at aia-aerospace.org> > 
Sent: 2021-04-08 16:45
To: Asmar Sami Mr <sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:sami.w.asmar at jpl.nasa.gov> >
Cc: Blackwood, Michael D. <MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com <mailto:MBlackwood at asrcfederal.com> >; Zhou Yuxia Ms <zhou_yuxia at 163.com <mailto:zhou_yuxia at 163.com> >; Forselius Richard Dr <rich.j.forselius at lmco.com <mailto:rich.j.forselius at lmco.com> >; DRYDEN Andrew <DRYDEN at iso.org <mailto:DRYDEN at iso.org> >; IBIDO Monica <ibido at iso.org <mailto:ibido at iso.org> >
Subject: FW: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Dear Sami, 

I hope you are well.  I don’t believe we have met formally yet.  I am the committee manager for ISO/TC 20, Aircraft & Space Vehicles.  

I received the following email from ISO Central Secretariat regarding SC 13’s document ISO 13764:1996 that uses CCSDS as a Registration Authority. There is action required to address the Registration Authority aspect of the standard.  Please see Andy Dryden’s email below and let us know if you have any questions.  We can set up a call with Andy to help if needed. 

Best regards, 

Chris Carnahan  |  Committee Manager, ISO/TC 20, Aircraft & Space Vehicles

Assistant Vice President, Standards

AIA  |  1000 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 1700, Arlington, VA 22209

T: 703.358.1052  |   <mailto:chris.carnahan at aia-aerospace.org> chris.carnahan at aia-aerospace.org

aia-aerospace.org

From: DRYDEN Andrew <DRYDEN at iso.org <mailto:DRYDEN at iso.org> > 
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 11:15 AM
To: Carnahan, Chris <Chris.Carnahan at aia-aerospace.org <mailto:Chris.Carnahan at aia-aerospace.org> >
Cc: DRYDEN Andrew <DRYDEN at iso.org <mailto:DRYDEN at iso.org> >; IBIDO Monica <ibido at iso.org <mailto:ibido at iso.org> >
Subject: Question on a couple Registration Authority/MA Standards in TC20 - 13764 and 11076

Hi Chris – I hope this email finds you and the family well – and hopefully preparing for a short Easter break.  Long time, no chat 😉

I needed to check in with you on a little side project I am working on, which is to update ISO’s records on Registration Authority and Maintenance Agency standards – making sure the appropriate resolutions are in place, agreements signed where necessary, standard content in line with the Directives etc. This is to fulfill an ISO Council request from Council resolution 9/2017.  

As part of this, there apparently are two TC20 standards on record that we wanted to ask you about… one is ISO 13764:1996 (SC13) and ISO 11076:2020 (SC9).

Out of these two, the main one I might need a hand with is 13764.  This is an old CCSDS document that uses CCSDS as a Registration Authority for application and assignment of identifiers.  Normally when an external organization’s standards get adopted by ISO, if a Registration Authority is involved, then ISO also would need to approve a candidate to serve as the Registration Authority with committee approval and also by Technical Management Board.  Although the enforcement on this hasn’t really existed for many years, this might be an opportunity to address now as part of this clean-up initiative.  I understand there is a new Committee Manager for SC13, if it might be possible for SC13 to consider whether this standard is really even needed any longer as an ISO adoption of the CCSDS standard (now 25 years old) and to potentially withdraw 13764.  If SC13 wishes to keep 13764, we will need to request SC13 to initiate a revision to bring it in line with Directives Part 1 (namely removing all reference to CCSDS as the Registration Authority, which honestly would probably be more challenge than it’s worth), and for SC13 to approve a Registration Authority candidate (CCSDS) and for CCSDS to sign a Registration Authority Agreement with ISO.  Please let me know how I might be able to help in this follow-up.  I’m not sure in this specific case how much extra value there might be in having the ISO version of this document, and potentially a bit of work in updating the record if SC13 wants to keep this one.

The second item is 11076, for which a revision I understand was published last year.  One of the earlier editions going back to 2000 or earlier apparently was marked and approved as a Maintenance Agency, although the relevant Annexes at that time describing the MA activity is no longer part of the standard in 2020.  In this particular case, I am no longer inclined to consider this document as a Maintenance Agency standard and would ask you and SC9 (and SAE, the original Maintenance Agency) to confirm at your convenience….here was the old TMB resolution on this one – and I attach the 2000 edition and the 2020 edition for comparison.  The new edition clearly does not have anything that I’d consider a Maintenance Agency…would John Clatworthy be one for us to contact for this confirmation?

Anyway, sorry to dump this on you, but just a couple to try to address this year if possible….  Let me know how I can assist, and of course with Monica in copy – as we discussed these earlier today.

Thanks as always in advance and speak soon!
Andy

andrew dryden 
technical programme manager | standards department | iso central secretariat

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