[Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG
Robert R. Downs
rdowns at ciesin.columbia.edu
Wed Sep 14 20:28:50 UTC 2016
Yes, your efforts are most appreciated!
Thanks,
Bob (in Denver)
Robert R. Downs, PhD
Senior Digital Archivist and Senior Staff Associate Officer of Research
Acting Head of Cyberinfrastructure and Informatics Research and Development
Center for International Earth Science Information Network (CIESIN),
The Earth Institute, Columbia University
P.O. Box 1000, 61 Route 9W, Palisades, NY 10964 USA
Voice: 845-365-8985; fax: 845-365-8922
E-mail: rdowns at ciesin.columbia.edu
Columbia University CIESIN Web site: http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu
ORCID: 0000-0002-8595-5134
On 9/14/2016 3:56 PM, Mark Conrad wrote:
> Thank you, gentlemen.
>
> Mark Conrad
> NARA Information Services
> IAS
> The National Archives and Records Administration
> Erma Ora Byrd Conference and Learning Center
> Building 494, Room 225
> 610 State Route 956
> Rocket Center, WV 26726
>
> Phone: 304-726-7820
> Fax: 304-726-7802
> Email: mark.conrad at nara.gov <mailto:mark.conrad at nara.gov>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:32 PM, David Giaretta <david at giaretta.org
> <mailto:david at giaretta.org>> wrote:
>
> John was there throughout and Terry for pretty well all as well.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mark Conrad <mark.conrad at nara.gov
> <mailto:mark.conrad at nara.gov>>
> Date: 14/09/2016 20:16 (GMT+00:00)
> To: MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
> <mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG
>
> Three hours! Wow. Thanks, David, for carrying the DAI flag over
> such an extended session!
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:23 PM, David Giaretta
> <david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org>> wrote:
>
> We just finished a 3 hour webex with Mario and others. We
> should see the combined comments later. I think Mario has
> included at least some of our points.
>
> ..David
>
> *From:*MOIMS-DAI [mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
> <mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>] *On Behalf Of
> *Mike Kearney
> *Sent:* 14 September 2016 18:59
> *To:* 'MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion'
> <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org <mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG
>
> I think this is moot, since the MOIMS telecon is over, and
> David has turned in whatever he decided on.
>
> But to close the loop… I wanted those guys to **acknowledge**
> a post-mission requirement, because I’m sure they’re not even
> thinking of such a thing right now. Also, the Shuttle program
> was 30 years, and they used one format/access method (ODRC)
> throughout the whole program, I’m pretty sure. Actually, I
> think ISS is still using it. That’s why it’s hard to get some
> (high-visibility) programs to address digital preservation.
> They’ve kept the constraints of historic access as
> requirements on new software development, hence they
> mistakenly think “we’re doing long-term preservation already”.
>
> Again, I’m just the messenger, explaining what they’re
> thinking “on the other side”.
>
> -=- Mike
>
> Mike Kearney
>
> Huntsville, Alabama, USA
>
> *From:*MOIMS-DAI [mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
> <mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>] *On Behalf Of
> *Mark Conrad
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 7:55 AM
> *To:* MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion
> <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org <mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG
>
> "* both during the mission lifetime, and in long-term archives
> post-mission.* "
>
> If the mission is more than a few years long, they will
> probably need long-term archives during the mission.
>
>
> Mark Conrad
> NARA Information Services
>
> IAS
> The National Archives and Records Administration
> Erma Ora Byrd Conference and Learning Center
> Building 494, Room 225
> 610 State Route 956
> Rocket Center, WV 26726
>
> Phone: 304-726-7820 <tel:304-726-7820>
> Fax: 304-726-7802 <tel:304-726-7802>
> Email: mark.conrad at nara.gov <mailto:mark.conrad at nara.gov>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Mike Kearney
> <kearneysolutions at gmail.com
> <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It would probably be good to tell them a from/to
> statement… you have explained the background, but you
> don’t quite tell them what you want the document to say.
> Something like this?
>
> *Integration levels*
>
> *Archiving*
>
>
>
> *Degree*
>
> *of Interoperability*
>
> Ops, engineering *and science*teams from various space
> agencies need to integrate their data in a*n* common
> archive *or set of archives,*and update/retrieve from
> *them, both during the mission lifetime, and in long-term
> archives post-mission.*
>
>
>
> Agreed common data formats (data standard), agreements on
> metadata content, central archive server and clients.
> *compliance with long-term digital preservation practices,
> such as CCSDS standards for OAIS, PAIS and future
> protocol-level standards yet to be developed by CCSDS. *
>
> I think they might contest the need to share long-term
> archives of engineering and ops data post-mission, so I
> added Science teams to their list… that’s clearly not
> contestable.
>
> Also, I don’t know why they said they had to agree on a
> central archive server and clients. Distributed archives
> would work also. Don’t think that should be necessary for
> archive interoperability. So I scratched it out. Am I
> missing something? Also scratched out “common” archive in
> the left box and suggested “an archive or set of
> archives”. Seems like a “common, central” archive is
> old-school and constraining.
>
> -=- Mike
>
> Mike Kearney
>
> Huntsville, Alabama, USA
>
> *From:*MOIMS-DAI
> [mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
> <mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>] *On Behalf
> Of *David Giaretta
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2016 4:31 PM
> *To:* 'MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion'
> <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
> <mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>>
> *Subject:* [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG
>
> As discussed at the DAI webex today, here is a collection
> of comments on the MOSSG paper. Any last updates?
>
> ..David
>
> 1)Although the paper states “Archive ingestion is not
> considered part of the IOAG interoperability goals.”,
> nevertheless as is recognised in “However, the assumption
> is that there are mechanisms for archive ingestion
> implemented”, it will not be possible to get data out of
> an archive unless data is ingested into it. MOIMS-DAI
> covers data ingest and should be mentioned in the
> document, for example CCSDS 651.1-B-1, Producer-Archive
> Interface Specification (PAIS). Blue Book. Issue 1.
> February 2014.
>
> 2)The use of the word archive is misleading. What is
> discussed in most of the document is what might be termed
> “short-term storage”. For example, the Service Description
> of the kind “Archive of Agency Y is accessed by Agency X
> to…”, which implies simple access to the bits which have
> been stored. Interoperability normally means being able to
> use the bits.
>
> The MOIMS-DAI work on archives is about maintaining the
> usability of the bits.
>
> If agencies X and Y use the same format and semantics for
> the bits then there is no problem. If one the other hand
> they do not then agency X will need additional
> information. This may be relevant if there is a long time
> between the creation of the data by Agency Y and the use
> by Agency X. It may also be relevant if there is very
> little time between creation and use, for example if the
> agencies use different systems.
>
> This is recognised in slide 29 in the PowerPoint
> presentation which has, at the top level:
>
> *Integration levels*
>
> *Archiving*
>
>
>
> *Degree*
>
> *of Interoperability*
>
> Ops and engineering teams from various space agencies need
> to integrate their data in a common archive and
> update/retrieve from it
>
>
>
> Agreed common data formats (data standard), agreements on
> metadata content, central archive server and clients
>
> There are several problems with the right hand side:
>
> a)Agreeing formats is not adequate. For example the
> agencies could agree to use CSV – but what do the elements
> mean? what are the units? Is agency X going to combine
> something measured in meters with something measured in
> feet? In other words what metadata content is needed? This
> is what DAI is concerned with.
>
> b)If Agency X wants the data from Agency Y after Y’s
> project has ended, can one be sure that the right metadata
> has been collected? MOIMS-DAI is working on “INFORMATION
> PREPARATION TO ENABLE LONG TERM USE” to create a checklist
> to help ensure that enough of the right kinds of metadata
> is collected. Of course ensuring the data continues to be
> usable despite the inevitable changes over time in
> software, systems, semantics etc., is covered by CCSDS
> 650.0-M-2, Reference Model for an Open Archival
> Information System (OAIS). Magenta Book. Issue 2. June 2012.
>
>
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