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<p>Yes, your efforts are most appreciated!</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Bob (in Denver)</p>
<p>Robert R. Downs, PhD<br>
Senior Digital Archivist and Senior Staff Associate Officer of
Research<br>
Acting Head of Cyberinfrastructure and Informatics Research and
Development<br>
Center for International Earth Science Information Network
(CIESIN),<br>
The Earth Institute, Columbia University<br>
P.O. Box 1000, 61 Route 9W, Palisades, NY 10964 USA<br>
Voice: 845-365-8985; fax: 845-365-8922<br>
E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu">rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu</a><br>
Columbia University CIESIN Web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu">http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu</a><br>
ORCID: 0000-0002-8595-5134<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/14/2016 3:56 PM, Mark Conrad
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB===VwnQW_ZkSUVeYB=MV8q=kTuKfiR9oR-L08Hj_6rZ0sa3w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you, gentlemen.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Mark Conrad<br>
NARA Information Services</div>
<div>IAS<br>
The National Archives and Records Administration<br>
Erma Ora Byrd Conference and Learning Center<br>
Building 494, Room 225<br>
610 State Route 956<br>
Rocket Center, WV 26726<br>
<br>
Phone: 304-726-7820<br>
Fax: 304-726-7802<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov"
target="_blank">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a> <br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:32 PM, David
Giaretta <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank">david@giaretta.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>John was there throughout and Terry for pretty well
all as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my
Samsung device</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Mark Conrad <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a>>
<br>
Date: 14/09/2016 20:16 (GMT+00:00) <br>
To: MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <br>
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Three hours! Wow. Thanks, David, for
carrying the DAI flag over such an extended session!
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:23
PM, David Giaretta <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank">david@giaretta.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We
just finished a 3 hour webex with Mario
and others. We should see the combined
comments later. I think Mario has included
at least some of our points.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">..David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_8961198062154302243_m_-428720735434453929__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></a></p>
<span></span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Kearney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 September 2016 18:59<br>
<b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive
Ingestion' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Draft
responses to MOSSG</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">I think this is moot, since
the MOIMS telecon is over, and David has
turned in whatever he decided on. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">But to close the loop… I
wanted those guys to *<b>acknowledge</b>*
a post-mission requirement, because I’m
sure they’re not even thinking of such a
thing right now. Also, the Shuttle
program was 30 years, and they used one
format/access method (ODRC) throughout the
whole program, I’m pretty sure. Actually,
I think ISS is still using it. That’s why
it’s hard to get some (high-visibility)
programs to address digital preservation.
They’ve kept the constraints of historic
access as requirements on new software
development, hence they mistakenly think
“we’re doing long-term preservation
already”. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Again, I’m just the
messenger, explaining what they’re
thinking “on the other side”. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> -=- Mike</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Mike Kearney</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Huntsville, Alabama, USA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Conrad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 14, 2016
7:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Draft
responses to MOSSG</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"</span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2" lang="EN-US"> both
during the mission lifetime, and in
long-term archives post-mission.</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2" lang="EN-US"> "</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2"
lang="EN-US">If the mission is more
than a few years long, they will
probably need long-term archives
during the mission.</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br
clear="all">
</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Mark Conrad<br>
NARA Information
Services</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">IAS<br>
The National Archives
and Records
Administration<br>
Erma Ora Byrd Conference
and Learning Center<br>
Building 494, Room 225<br>
610 State Route 956<br>
Rocket Center, WV 26726<br>
<br>
Phone: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:304-726-7820" value="+13047267820" target="_blank">304-726-7820</a><br>
Fax: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:304-726-7802" value="+13047267802" target="_blank">304-726-7802</a><br>
Email: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Mike
Kearney <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kearneysolutions@gmail.com" target="_blank">kearneysolutions@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_8961198062154302243_m_-428720735434453929_m_-5582551412819744312__MailEndCompose"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">It would probably
be good to tell them a from/to
statement… you have explained
the background, but you don’t
quite tell them what you want
the document to say.
Something like this? </span></a><span></span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<table
style="width:588.25pt;margin-left:35.2pt;border-collapse:collapse"
border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" width="784">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:323.7pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;background:red;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
valign="top" width="432">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Integration
levels</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Archiving</span></b></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:264.55pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#acb9ca;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
valign="top" width="353">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Degree</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">of
Interoperability</span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:31.25pt">
<td
style="width:323.7pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-top:none;background:#f2f2f2;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm
5.4pt;height:31.25pt"
valign="top" width="432">
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"
lang="EN-CA">Ops,
engineering <b><span
style="color:red">and
science</span></b><span
style="color:red"> </span>teams
from various space
agencies need to
integrate their data in
a<b><span
style="color:red">n</span></b>
<s>common</s> archive <b><span
style="color:red">or
set of archives,</span></b><span
style="color:red"> </span>and
update/retrieve from <b><span
style="color:red">them,
both during the
mission lifetime,
and in long-term
archives
post-mission.</span></b><span
style="color:red"> </span></span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:264.55pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-right:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;background:#f2f2f2;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm
5.4pt;height:31.25pt"
valign="top" width="353">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"
lang="EN-CA">Agreed
common data formats
(data standard),
agreements on metadata
content, <s>central
archive server and
clients. </s><b><span
style="color:red">compliance
with long-term
digital preservation
practices, such as
CCSDS standards for
OAIS, PAIS and
future
protocol-level
standards yet to be
developed by CCSDS.
</span></b></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">I think they might
contest the need to share
long-term archives of
engineering and ops data
post-mission, so I added Science
teams to their list… that’s
clearly not contestable. </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Also, I don’t know
why they said they had to agree
on a central archive server and
clients. Distributed archives
would work also. Don’t think
that should be necessary for
archive interoperability. So I
scratched it out. Am I missing
something? Also scratched out
“common” archive in the left box
and suggested “an archive or set
of archives”. Seems like a
“common, central” archive is
old-school and constraining. </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> -=- Mike</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Mike Kearney</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Huntsville,
Alabama, USA</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David
Giaretta<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
September 13, 2016 4:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data
Archive Ingestion' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"
target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Moims-dai]
Draft responses to MOSSG</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As discussed at
the DAI webex today, here is a
collection of comments on the
MOSSG paper. Any last updates?<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">..David<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>1)<span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Although the paper states
“Archive ingestion is not
considered part of the IOAG
interoperability goals.”,
nevertheless as is recognised in
“However, the assumption is that
there are mechanisms for archive
ingestion implemented”, it will
not be possible to get data out of
an archive unless data is ingested
into it. MOIMS-DAI covers data
ingest and should be mentioned in
the document, for example CCSDS
651.1-B-1, Producer-Archive
Interface Specification (PAIS).
Blue Book. Issue 1. February 2014.<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>2)<span style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>The use of the word archive
is misleading. What is discussed
in most of the document is what
might be termed “short-term
storage”. For example, the Service
Description of the kind “Archive
of Agency Y is accessed by Agency
X to…”, which implies simple
access to the bits which have been
stored. Interoperability normally
means being able to use the bits.
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>The MOIMS-DAI work on archives is
about maintaining the usability of
the bits. <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>If agencies X and Y use the same
format and semantics for the bits
then there is no problem. If one
the other hand they do not then
agency X will need additional
information. This may be relevant
if there is a long time between
the creation of the data by Agency
Y and the use by Agency X. It may
also be relevant if there is very
little time between creation and
use, for example if the agencies
use different systems. <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>This is recognised in slide 29 in
the PowerPoint presentation which
has, at the top level:<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<table
style="width:588.25pt;margin-left:35.2pt;border-collapse:collapse"
border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" width="784">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:323.7pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;background:red;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
valign="top" width="432">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Integration
levels</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Archiving</span></b></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:264.55pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#acb9ca;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
valign="top" width="353">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">Degree</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-CA">of
Interoperability</span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:31.25pt">
<td
style="width:323.7pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-top:none;background:#f2f2f2;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm
5.4pt;height:31.25pt"
valign="top" width="432">
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"
lang="EN-CA">Ops and
engineering teams from
various space agencies
need to integrate their
data in a common archive
and update/retrieve from
it</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:264.55pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;border-right:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;background:#f2f2f2;padding:0cm
5.4pt 0cm
5.4pt;height:31.25pt"
valign="top" width="353">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"
lang="EN-CA">Agreed
common data formats
(data standard),
agreements on metadata
content, central archive
server and clients</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>There are several problems with
the right hand side:<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:54.0pt">a)<span
style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Agreeing
formats is not adequate. For
example the agencies could agree
to use CSV – but what do the
elements mean? what are the units?
Is agency X going to combine
something measured in meters with
something measured in feet? In
other words what metadata content
is needed? This is what DAI is
concerned with.<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:54.0pt">b)<span
style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>If
Agency X wants the data from
Agency Y after Y’s project has
ended, can one be sure that the
right metadata has been collected?
MOIMS-DAI is working on
“INFORMATION PREPARATION TO ENABLE
LONG TERM USE” to create a
checklist to help ensure that
enough of the right kinds of
metadata is collected. Of course
ensuring the data continues to be
usable despite the inevitable
changes over time in software,
systems, semantics etc., is
covered by CCSDS 650.0-M-2,
Reference Model for an Open
Archival Information System
(OAIS). Magenta Book. Issue 2.
June 2012.<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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