[Moims-dai] Minutes of today telecon (13th March 2015)

Boucon Daniele Daniele.Boucon at cnes.fr
Fri Mar 13 18:18:38 UTC 2015

 Hi all,

Please find below the minutes of today telecon. Feel free to correct or comment.

Next telecons:
1 Friday 20th March (15h EU time, 10h US time-Washington)
To share screen:
=>Agenda (2 different parts, 1 hour each):
1st hour: (15-16h EU time, 10-11h US time)
* METS test case
* Corot test case
* Core GB
2nd hour: (16-17h EU time, 11-12h US time)
* ICP : generic description for stages, different scenarii

2. CCSDS meeting from 23rd to 27th March, Caltech

If available, proposal to use Dave's new number for the sound:
Dave Williams
Telecon information
+1-844-467-6272      USA Toll Free
+1-720-259-6462      Others
Passcode:    841727

Best regards,


13th March meeting minutes

DB: Daniele Boucon
DG: David Giaretta
DS: Don Sawyer
ES: Esther Conway
JG: John Garrett
MM: Mike Martin (NASA)
RD: Robert Downs
SM: Stephane Mbaye
SR: Stephane Reecht
BC: Bertrand Caron (BnF)
PT: Jean-Philippe Tramoni (BnF)
WG: all

D=Decision, A=action (other = discussion)

1 METS test case

Updates received from DS, BC and DB today.

A=>(WG): send comments on the updated METS test case description -> next Friday 20th March.

2   Corot Test case

Update received from DS today.
Comments from the Corot project manager waited for end of next week.
Discussion planned next Friday and/or the week after during the Caltech meeting for finalization.

1.      3 Core PAIS GB
Updates received from Don the 20th February, 2nd March and today.
Discussion on the first pages, to be continued.

A=>(JG): check if section 1.6.1 "Normative track documents" section is required in a GB.

A=>(WG): review Don's comments for the core GB -> next Friday 20th March.

2.      4 Information Curation Process -ICP
DB : synthesis of stages description by EC, DB, MM, JG in a spreadsheet, and updated LTDP figure on Stewardship/Curation/Preservation/Consolidation, by JG.

MM : asks for a high level and clear description of each of the 4 stages, rather than a more detailed description. Important to say: no need to speak about preservation, but identify what's going on in each stage -even if no impact on preservation (the current description focuses too much on preservation).
For example: archiving repeats what is in OAIS, think of what are we going to talk about; Implementation: a lot of decisions are made at this stage; Operation: creation and collect of data and associated information link with provenance.

DB: ok, with the fact that this spreadsheet also helps to understand what is expected in these stages.

DS: take 2 very different examples/scenario: one from a library (digitization of newspapers), one from space mission, and think about the steps considering these examples.

Synthesis of the discussion: 2 directions:
*use 2 examples and see how the steps apply
*write a high level and generic description of each of the stages.

A=>(JG): propose a high level description for each stage; apply the stages on the 2 examples library digitization/space mission.
A=>(MM): propose a general paragraph to introduce the 4 stages.

Other points

CNES PAIS prototype: installation highly simplified (PostgreSQL replaced by an integrated Derby database). Currently tested by DB.

Actions review
 Updated actions will be sent separately by JG.

End of 13th March meeting minutes
Part of historical minutes to be reminded

        2.2 Core document

Section 4.1.1 reviewed (ok)
Tabular representation is welcome but question remains about their systematic use (need an XML version in annex ?)

CCSD0014: equivalent to TO Descriptor, and CCSD0015: equivalent to Collection Descriptor

==> Action Stephane from MM: explain more the CCSD0015: how it is registered and reference where more information could be found on that subject

Don:  descriptorModelID has to be changed on any XSD change (specialization), the Archive has to maintain the versions

Section 4.6.1 about PAIS XSD description should remain here for the time being

« open » enumeration technique is cumbersome (TBC)

Comment from previous telecons on method
* (Daniele): there are steps that conform to the PAIMAS process (first model, SIP constraints, then transfer and validation).
* Link between the data base on the Archive side, and the PAIS XML elements: example on how to match both (core document, test case?).

The following paragraph will be suppressed if ok:
XML namespace for PAIS

It is agreed that not all positions where a pais :any element are possible have to be documented in the GB. Only a few example are necessary or even one.

More concrete example should be provided than the abstract « foo »/« bar » currently proposed. Typical example would be a Collection holding a pais :any with the author of the descriptor, the Collection name/ID in the Producer semantic, or anything else that could be specific to the Producer or the Archive side but not provided in the PAIS definitions.

SM: Reminded that « true » restrictions of XML Schema guarantees that the original PAIS XML Schema's rule are still applicable. Any instance following a restriction follows the original ones.

SM: The use of restrictions does not impose any system to use the derived PAIS schemas. Therefore, the restricted schemas have not to be shared with any user of the produced SIPs. The project specific schemas could even be discarded without losing control of the produced SIPs.

=> D - (DS) The rightmost column of the table in §4.6.4 shall be renamed « Restriction » instead of « Content »

MM: It is not clear that this table should be kept in that form or discarded at the end, but the target should not spend too much pages on that topic.

WG: restrictions may be interesting for implementers and as such should be documented, but it is not clear if this should be proposed as a recommendation or a best practice.

SM: reminded that restricting elements such as the maxOccurrence's should be a recommended practice since it can be very difficult to implement interoperable software exchanging elements of xs:nonNegativeInteger type.

SM: proposed to add prepared templates of restricting XML Schemas in annex. Something that could help implementers to quickly setup the restrictions of their needs.
WG: adding XML Schema's in annex may not be so helpful because cut and paste from PDF may be very cumbersome.

=> D - (JG) these XSD shall be placed side to the originals.

SM: The problem is similar to other GB resources as the use case descriptors or the software prototypes.


Preservation process

DB: LOTAR representative is ok with "preservation", but not with "curation" (this word is not used in the community).

To be done: analyse and suggest, at different stages of the project (during data lifecycle), what should be done on an archiving point of view.

Example of main issue: keep documentation up to date (when changes in formats, processing, ... are made on the data).

Daniele explains her point of view: develop a "model" (magenta book) gathering all the basic components of the preservation activity (selection and appraisal, data and metadata preparation, access, maintenance ...) that should cover all the data lifecycle (even when data don't exist), in order to be able to answer the following question: what should be done from the beginning till the end to be able to preserve data, and at what moment? This should be done in a generic way, making links on standards related to basic components when they exist.

Suggestion to ask Barbara Sierman of existing works concerning this topic. Mail sent the 7/02 by Daniele.

Daniele underlines the need for CNES and LTDP group. CCSDS expertise will be very important.

The PDS has its internal process ; for other agencies (particularly the LTDP member agencies) this process doesn't exist and is required.

Question on how to make the link between a global process and the PAIMAS phases.

20131030 Don's email and following discussions:
Don: The process could be focussed on the Archive point of view, and seen an internal OAIS issue for workflow, using then more OAIS concepts.
The "provenance" is practically a big issue, going back to the original information.
"Reprocessing, curation, stewardship" could be maped with OAIS migrations, new versions, ...

Update procedures exist at NSSDC.

Daniele: appraisal should be the starting point. Workflow, on the Archive side, could begin early in a space project, even when data don't yet exist ; link with the Archive side of the PAIMAS.

Other subjects

OAIS Magenta Book (French version)

Complete validation to be performed now (text and figures)
This version will be also validated by the French National Archives.
Due to the amount of work on the PAIS, and priority to the PAIS green book, this will be treated after.


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