[CMC] On CCSDS de-affiliation of ISO ...
Eduardo W. Bergamini
e.w.bergamini at uol.com.br
Thu Dec 3 15:31:15 UTC 2015
Dear James,
I wish to express you that I agree with the manifest, rerproduced below of our other
CCSDS colleagues who, to this point in time, have expressed their views, after your
addressing to us, as also reproduced, below.
In spite of my (still valid) position as the Chair and long time acquaintance with SC13,
I was surpised to learn from you of the (NASA, I understand) paid CCSDS affiliation to
ISO. In my limited understanding so far, I had the (wrong) belief that funded by NASA,
ANSI, since the beginning of SC13 was funding this task which, in more recent yaers,
also start involving AIAA in the provisioning of the secretariat support, for the purpose.
In any case, this was my view.
Now, reflecting over the whole issue you posed us, I would like to make some
comments on the subject you have just addresed us.
First, it is (still) very clear in my memory the arguments that were presented, back in
~ 1988-9 to CMC on the need to consider a close relationship between CCSDS and ISO.
In fact, it was in a CMC-CCSDS meeting (‘89?) held in DLR (Oberpfaffenhofen), when
careful arguments on the need for approximation of CCSDS to ISO were presented and
discussed with the attendees, by (Dr.) MacGregor S. Read (JPL). I am not sure but if that
was the occasion but, for sure, around that time, CMC decided to pursue such an
approximation which, eventually, in a relatively short time, resulted on the creation of
SC13. I can say that Mac Read (JPL) was instrumental in the materialization of this
new endeavor for CCSDS, that is, the creation of ISO TC20/SC13 (we have most of the
documents derived from that initiative, available in our folder of Nxxxx docs of our SC13
Website.
I did an exercise trying to rephrase some of the main arguments used by Mac Read in
that occasion, as addressed by him to CMC-CCSDS, for justifying his proposal, as
discussed and accepted by CMC, around that time. Rephrasing the main arguments of
Mac Read addressed to CMC at that occasion, they are listed as follows:
1) ISO is, perhaps, the most respectable and influencing authority as an international
body for standardization; It evidently holds a wide and, perhaps, the widest reach in
terms of standardization and associated adherence by member bodies, in the whole
globe (to this day);
2) CCSDS produces Recommendations (now, also MBs/Best Practices) for Standards
(BBs) but it is not an standardization authority, at least, outside its the scope of
its member agencies, therefore, apart from its observing agencies;
3) CCSDS will “not-go-to-far” with its Recomendations for standards if it do not have
a worldwide, far-reaching recognition, not only by the standardization bodies of the
countries of its own member agencies but, also, by the many other countries which
are also member bodies of ISO, worldwide;
4) CCSDS would have a tremendous leveraging gain and advantage if ISO could also
become an entry point for transforming its Recomendations for Standards in ISO
Standards; An enormous leveraging factor that provides much larger transparency of
CCSDS Recommendations, effectively worlwide; Therefore, also including many
countries which are not affiliated to CCSDS through their member agencies, as well;
5) There was (and, fortunately, there still is) willingness (thanks to Mac Read, then,
contacts with ISO) from the part of ISO to consider a faster track for CCSDS originated
Recomendations (currently, BBs and MBs) to enter and be processed through the
stages of ISO standardization process that has made possible the transformation
of those CCSDS originated documents to ISO Standards; Which is shortly known to
as being the “cover-sheet-process”; In fact, in recent years We were awarded by ISO
with a speed up in this process which made it possible that CCSDS originated
documents could then, be submitted to enter at an even more advanced stage of
process toward its approval as an ISO standard. A privilege. CCSDS is being awarded
by ISO with a very special privilege under this “fast-track” regime for the “cover-sheet”
process. To this point in time, I do not know of any other external entity to ISO has
such a privileged treatment from ISO ...
I will stop here with the above points but, in any case, they I am solidly convinced
that that they continue to be of most significant importance for CCSDS.
Consider to your best possibilities the following, further consideration:
1) For CCSDS it will be a tremendous, invaluable loss for CCSDS a pull-out from ISO
(SC13); Not only for the tremenduous and truly far reaching work that has already
been done as a resulting of such a (legitimaly) special arragement partnership but,
also, we do hope, for what is to come ahead of us ....
2) CCSDS has to make all, I really mean, ALL possible efforts, much probably,
gathering support among its Member agencies, to MAINTAIN its current ties with
ISO, via SC13; I do believe that, if we properly gather our motivations, we can find
a way a out to avoid, permit me, this strongly significant, potential setback ... I urge
you to consider and invest in your role with CCSDS (inclusive) on this move. I can
hardly imagine we will be forced to repent ourselves if we do not make a serious,
joint drive for maintaining the current, much priviledge ties and on going process
between CCSDS and ISO (SC13).
We say in Brazil ... “A team that is gaining game(s), should not be changed” ...
I do believe that that the CCSDS-ISO team is solidly gaining games for a long
time now. Let us try hard to keep it going ...
Last but not least. I believe that after you may properly access the current
situation, Andy Dryden, as I pointed you before, may be a most valuable source
of counseling to such expectation. He is our SC13 ISO CS liaison, for years.
He is not only competent but also, as I have seen over years, a positively
constructive person, if you may present him the situation under the terms you
may end up finding to be pertinent and reasonable.
With my best regards,
Eduardo
-----
EDUARDO W. BERGAMINI
INPE Representative to CCSDS
ABNT/Brazil and Chair to ISO TC20/SC13
Information Networks in Space Missions - RME
Coordination of Technology Management - TEC
Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - INPE
Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation - MCTI
Avenida dos Astronautas, 1758
12227-010 São José dos Campos, SP
BRAZIL
Phones : +55 12 3208 6166/6603
Fax : +55 12 3208 6150
E-mail : e.w.bergamini at uol.com.br
______________________________________________________________________
From: osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2015 8:34 AM
To: james.afarin at nasa.gov ; CMC at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: [CMC] AW: ISO Affiliation with CCSDS
Hi James,
I agree with Juan, Nestor and Shigeta-san about the importance of keeping the affiliation between ISO and CCSDS.
About the contribution from DLR side, today is still under discussion, it could be possible, but I cannot said that we will contribute, it depends about the amount that we are talking about.
Best Regards
Osvaldo
.
.
.
______________________________________________________________________
From: Juan.Miro at esa.int
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2015 8:14 AM
To: Afarin, James (HQ-CG000)
Cc: cmc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org ; CCSDS Management Council (CMC at mailman.ccsds.org)(CMC at mailman.ccsds.org)
Subject: Re: [CMC] ISO Affiliation with CCSDS
Dear James,
Looking at the points raised by CESG, I can see several important ones justifying to stay affiliated with ISO, like the adherence to the ISO patent declaration, avoiding overlap with ISO standards and keeping the balance with the European Cooperation for Space Standardisation (ECSS).
If the financial burden is excessive for NASA then one could think of asking CCSDS member Agencies to contribute to cover the costs via CCSDS membership fee.
Regards
Juan
.
.
.
______________________________________________________________________
-----Mensagem Original-----
From: T. Shigeta
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2015 5:46 AM
To: Afarin, James (HQ-CG000) ; CCSDS Management Council (CMC at mailman.ccsds.org) (CMC at mailman.ccsds.org)
Cc: Nestor.Peccia at esa.int
Subject: Re: [CMC] ISO Affiliation with CCSDS
Dear Afarin-san,
Here is JAXA's initial feedback on your e-mail regarding possible
termination of the ISO/CCSDS affiliation.
Although we do not fully understand the background and strategic context
of the affiliation between CCSDS and ISO, we clearly see the advantage
and significance of the relationship between CCSDS and ISO from an
article of Mr. A. Hook
<http://public.ccsds.org/about/halloffame/adrianhooke.aspx> and the
charter of TC20/SC13
<http://public.ccsds.org/about/ISO_TC20-SC13_charter.aspx>.
Therefore, we basically agree with the opinion and advice stated in the
e-mail dated Dec.2 from the CESG Chair.
If cost issue hinder our affiliation with ISO,
JAXA, as a member of the CMC, should also participate in a discussion on
how best we can cope with this issue. I believe that some approaches
that work well for every CCSDS stakeholder can be found through discussion.
Regards --- Shigeta
.
.
.
______________________________________________________________________
From: Nestor.Peccia at esa.int
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 8:52 AM
To: Afarin, James (HQ-CG000)
Cc: CMC at mailman.ccsds.org ; cesg at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: [CMC] ISO Affiliation with CCSDS
James,
I have gathered some feedback from within the CESG.to help the discussion within the CMC.
One of the most important points for CESG is to know the actual cost of maintaining the ISO affiliation, and if it is possible to negotiate and lower it. Once the cost is known, the CESG can quantify the affiliation in terms of benefit versus cost.
Our opinion is that ending the CCSDS / ISO affiliation would not be beneficial
a.. ISO is more internationally recognized and visible than CCSDS (in fact ISO is the highest standardization body worldwide)
b.. Transfer of CCSDS recommendations into ISO standards avoids potential overlap with other ISO standards (see for instance the complexity of the relationships between CCSDS and OMG on XTCE). or even regional standards (like European Norms (EN))
c.. Affiliation enables the CCSDS Promotion with other communities (e.g. Digital Repositories, architectures, information models, security, etc)
d.. Affiliation enables some CCSDS work (e.g. SCPS) uptake by some other sponsors.
e.. Affiliation enables the use of the ISO patent declaration form for CCSDS documents.
f.. If ISO affiliation is dropped, Europeans will have CCSDS making non-ISO standards, whereas ECSS would do it,
It should be noted that space agencies and industry working on institutional projects use CCSDS recommendations only.
ciao
nestor
.
.
.
______________________________________________________________________
From: Afarin, James (HQ-CG000)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:16 PM
To: CCSDS Management Council (CMC at mailman.ccsds.org) (CMC at mailman.ccsds.org)
Subject: [CMC] ISO Affiliation with CCSDS
Hi All,
CCSDS secretariat is considering to sever the CCSDS affiliation with ISO due to cost of implementation of ISO requirements and associated fees. The consequence are the CCSDS standards will not be ISO standards and there will be no ISO TC20/SC13 and ISO TC20/SC14 affiliation with CCSDS. I need to make an urgent decision in this matter so please provide your input by COB Thursday December 3. Also a formal CMC poll will be provided for your official vote very soon.
Thank you,
James
Dr. James Afarin
Space Data Standards Manager
Space Communications and Navigation Division
Office: 202-358-5221
Mobile: 202-549-6496
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