[CESG] CESG-P-2021-11-002 Approval to release CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) for CCSDS Agency review
CCSDS Secretariat
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
Wed May 25 16:04:51 UTC 2022
Dear CESG Members,
Conditions for approval of CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of
Fixed-length Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) have been disposed
to the satisfaction of the AD(s) who voted to approve with
conditions. [SOIS AD conditions are deemed resolved based on
greater-than-30-day lack of response, per CCSDS A02.1-Y-4.] The
Secretariat will now proceed with CMC polling to authorize release
for Agency review.
-------------- next part --------------
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 4:30 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)';
Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-
580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Categories: Poll Condition Closure
Ok. Go for it.
(Still seems weird to me
)
Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 11:33 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter: That is indeed how the Turbo code patent was handled. Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:35 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.
(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Tom,
That most obvious comparison that springs to mind is the Turbo code spec. If that process you describe
is how we handled the Turbo spec I would accept it for this as well and let it go to review.
That said, this procedure for handling patented technology may need review. Saying that you cannot
implement a spec without a patent license, but that the license is not normative on the spec, seems
really weird to me.
Cheers, Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 4:50 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter:
I agree with the sensibilities, but there is another way to look at it. The fact that a patent exists is not
normative with respect to the abstract CCSDS standard: it is relevant only to implementations and really
only to implementations that enter the marketplace. We provide the potential implementer with the
information that a patent exists and that a RAND license can be obtained, and we provide the contact
details for acquiring a license. We do it informatively rather than normatively (the annex in which the
information is provided is informative).
Thats our procedure. It may not be our most elegant procedure (Mike Kearney wrote it), but it is
modeled on ISOs, specifically because our Blue Books are (were?) on track to become ISO standards.
In any case, half a dozen or so books have been published following the existing patent procedure (its
been in effect for many years now), so picking on this book in particular is a little unfair to the WG. It
makes sense to me to let the book go to review and bring the issue up at the CESG if you really think it
needs redress.
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 7:07 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.
(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Thanks Tom. No issue with the handling of the patent form and exercise of this aspect as part of the
pre-Blue Book prototyping. I agree completely.
My issue, if I can articulate it more clearly, is this:
* There appears to be a patent that covers at least some part of this standard
* A license for use of this patent appears to be required in order to meet the legal rights of the
patent holder
* The patent holder (ESA) has agreed to RAND license terms
* What is the normative reference to the patent?
If it is not possible for the user of this standard to apply it and implement it without acquiring a RAND
license then I do not understand how this patent can be treated as anything but a normative reference.
* Conversely, if no license is required then I would agree that the patent is not a normative
reference.
Is that now clear?
Thanks, Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 3:03 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter, et al.:
Concerning reference [C6], it is provided only for concept and rationale. So it is not normative,
and I am unsure how it is conflated with the patent-license discussion. I confess I thought it was
an odd short-cut-workaround-half-measure to reference a SpaceOps paper for concept and
rationale, when documenting concept and rationale in a Green Book how it is supposed to be
done, but that does not appear to be the issue holding up release of the Red Book.
Concerning the patent statement, at this (Red Book) stage, the patent information in the annex is
consistent with our procedures, and I believe it is sufficient for Red Book review. It states that a
patent exists and that RAND licensing is available, and it provides contact information for
securing a license. That's all our procedures require. We could have a normative reference to the
actual patent (and I have argued in the past that we should do that), but a requirement to do so is
nowhere stated in our procedures.
The bar will be a little higher when the book comes back for Blue Book approval, at which time
the signed patent form needs to be on file with the CCSDS and exercise of patent licensing needs
to be demonstrated in the interoperability test report.
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 2:58 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670); Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-
580.0)[EMERITUS]
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Mark, et al,
Please see attached notes. I'd like to get this published, but I think you do not have the patent
and other references language quite correct.
Perhaps Tom Gannet has some CCSDS publications guidance that can sort this out.
Regards, Peter
On 4/5/22, 8:25 AM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter, Ignacio and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated Red book and RID. Hope this addresses most of your
concerns.
We also completed the cross verification of this standard. Please also see attached for the
corresponding yellow book.
Please let us know if there is anything else that need further clarification.
Thanks,
Mark Wong
NASA GSFC Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 8:54 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670) <mark.wong at nasa.gov>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int;
Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS] <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Guys,
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I still find some things that just do not seem right to
me. Please review the attached mark up.
The doc in its present form may be clear enough for any of the reviewers who are primarily
interested in the details of the algorithm, but it is missing some surrounding parts that are
relevant for clarity and context.
Peter
On 3/1/22, 1:24 PM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter, Ignacio and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated RID responses and revised CCSDS 124.0 Robust
Compression of Fixed-length housekeeping Data Red book.
If there is anything that need more clarification, please let us know.
Best,
Mark Wong
NASA GSFC Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:57 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670) <mark.wong at nasa.gov>;
Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Mark,
In general this looks fine. I did find a few issues with the clarity of some of the new
materials and suggested some improvements of wording. In particular, the licensing parts
appeared to me to need clarification.
I also wonder if there is a missing normative reference. See note in Sec 1.6.
See attached.
Thanks, Peter
On 1/19/22, 7:23 AM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter Ignacio, and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-
length Housekeeping Data red book and the corresponding responses to your comments.
Please let me know if these are satisfactory.
Sincerely,
Mark Wong
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wong, Ph.D.
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch/Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
B19 Rm S030
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: CESG-All <cesg-all-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> On Behalf Of CCSDS
Secretariat
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:15 PM
To: cesg-all at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Cesg-all] Results of CESG Polls closing 10 December 2021
CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-002 Approval to release CCSDS 124.0-R-1,
Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) for CCSDS
Agency review Results of CESG poll beginning 26 November 2021 and ending 10 December
2021:
Abstain: 0 (0%)
Approve Unconditionally: 1 (25%) (Merri) Approve with Conditions: 3 (75%) (Shames,
Aguilar Sanchez, Wilmot) Disapprove with Comment: 0 (0%)
CONDITIONS/COMMENTS:
Peter Shames (Approve with Conditions): At least a first cut at the SANA and
Security sections should be made before this document goes out for agency review. These
sections are empty at present.
Ignacio Aguilar Sanchez (Approve with
Conditions): Section 1.4: please include a short summary of the rationale (less than one
page) and for further detail provide a reference that is easily and publicly available.
Annex B: please fill in all the relevant sections; use other Data Compression standards for
inspiration.
Furthermore, please take the opportunity to update B3 with the latest status of patent
considerations. Consult CCSDS A02.1-Y-4, section 2.4.1. for guidance.
Jonathan Wilmot (Approve with
Conditions): Concur with SEA AD , SANA and
security sections should be present. Any paremeters for configuration that need to be
known by both compressor and decompressor algorithms should be SANA registered with more
formal definitions.
Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved with Conditions
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate
CMC poll after conditions have been addressed
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-
003 Approval to publish CCSDS 414.1-B-3, Pseudo-Noise
(PN) Ranging Systems (Blue Book, Issue 3) Results of CESG poll beginning 26
November 2021 and ending 10 December 2021:
Abstain: 1 (25%) (Merri) Approve Unconditionally: 3 (75%) (Shames,
Aguilar Sanchez, Wilmot) Approve with Conditions: 0 (0%) Disapprove with Comment: 0
(0%) Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved Unconditionally
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate CMC poll
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-
004 Approval to publish CCSDS 350.1-G-3, Security Threats against Space Missions (Green
Book, Issue 3) Results of CESG poll beginning 26 November 2021 and ending 10 December
2021:
Abstain: 0 (0%)
Approve Unconditionally: 3 (75%) (Merri, Shames, Aguilar Sanchez) Approve with
Conditions: 1 (25%) (Wilmot) Disapprove with Comment: 0 (0%)
CONDITIONS/COMMENTS:
Jonathan Wilmot (Approve with
Conditions): 3.4.10 UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS should also address crew interfaces
which do not interface through ground systems. An issue to discuss is crew inability to safe
themselves when inappropriate security measures lock them out.
Consider adding a Tainted Software section similar to 3.4.11 TAINTED HARDWARE
COMPONENTS. Same logic could apply.
Consider adding some discussion on how
"Probabilities" were determined in treat analysis tables. That would be very useful to the
target audience.
Consider adding some discussion on time distribution. Accurate clocks are key to
navigation and communications protocols such as DTN. Missions have proposed NTP for
vehicle to vehicle time synchronization which brings issues with jumps in time
forward/backwards, time convergence latency, ... which could be threats either intended or
unintended.
Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved with Conditions
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate
CMC poll after conditions have been addressed
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
_______________________________________________
CESG-All mailing list
CESG-All at mailman.ccsds.org
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-------------- next part --------------
From: Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:50 AM
To: Thomas Gannett
Cc: David.Evans at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]';
Lucana.Santos at esa.int; 'Wong, Englin(GSFC-5670)'; 'Shames, Peter
M(US 312B)'
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-
length Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Dear Tom,
Thank you.
Still learning my way around processes.
Please do not add the subsection now. As you say, for Final Publication.
Kind regards,
Ignacio
Ignacio Aguilar Sánchez
Communication Systems Engineer
Electrical Engineering Department
European Space Research and Technology Centre
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
Tel. (31) 71 565 5695
Fax (31) 71 565 5418
Email: ignacio.aguilar.sanchez at esa.int
www.esa.int
From: "Thomas Gannett" <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
To: <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>
Cc: <David.Evans at esa.int>, "'Wilmot, Jonathan J.\(GSFC-580.0\)[EMERITUS]'" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>,
<Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "'Wong, Englin\(GSFC-5670\)'" <mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "'Shames, Peter M\(US 312B\)'"
<peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: 12/04/2022 16:45
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping Data
(Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Dear Ignacio:
I have the boilerplate text for the Patented Technologies subsection. It is a little problematic to add it at
this (Red Book) stage, since its wording is applicable to a final publication, but I can add it with a
disclaimer if you like.
Best regards,
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int [mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2022 9:22 AM
To: Thomas Gannett
Cc: David.Evans at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'; Lucana.Santos at esa.int;
'Wong, Englin(GSFC-5670)'; 'Shames, Peter M(US 312B)'
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Dear Tom,
My conditions for approval have been met.
However, out of a more recent experience with another SLS book containing a patent where a thorough
examination of the Publications Manual was carried out, I have just noticed that a subsection on Patent
Technologies (it would be a new 1.7 subsection) may be missing. We may all have missed it. Sorry for
that late finding!
@Mark, David: subject to Tom's confirmation, you can find the relevant boiler plate text for the new
subsection 1.7 of our CCSDS 124.0-R-1 in subsection 3.4.1.7 of the CCSDS A20.0-Y-4 Publications
Manual.
Kind regards,
Ignacio
Ignacio Aguilar Sánchez
Communication Systems Engineer
Electrical Engineering Department
European Space Research and Technology Centre
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
Tel. (31) 71 565 5695
Fax (31) 71 565 5418
Email: ignacio.aguilar.sanchez at esa.int
www.esa.int
From: "Thomas Gannett" <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
To: <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "'Wilmot, Jonathan J.\(GSFC-580.0\)[EMERITUS]'"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, <David.Evans at esa.int>, "'Shames, Peter M\(US 312B\)'"
<peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin\(GSFC-5670\)'" <mark.wong at nasa.gov>
Date: 06/04/2022 22:51
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping Data
(Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Dear Jonathan and Ignacio:
Please indicate by return email if your poll conditions have been satisfied.
Best regards,
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 4:30 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.
(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Ok. Go for it.
(Still seems weird to me
)
Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 11:33 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter: That is indeed how the Turbo code patent was handled. Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:35 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.
(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Tom,
That most obvious comparison that springs to mind is the Turbo code spec. If that process you describe
is how we handled the Turbo spec I would accept it for this as well and let it go to review.
That said, this procedure for handling patented technology may need review. Saying that you cannot
implement a spec without a patent license, but that the license is not normative on the spec, seems
really weird to me.
Cheers, Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 4:50 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter:
I agree with the sensibilities, but there is another way to look at it. The fact that a patent exists is not
normative with respect to the abstract CCSDS standard: it is relevant only to implementations and really
only to implementations that enter the marketplace. We provide the potential implementer with the
information that a patent exists and that a RAND license can be obtained, and we provide the contact
details for acquiring a license. We do it informatively rather than normatively (the annex in which the
information is provided is informative).
Thats our procedure. It may not be our most elegant procedure (Mike Kearney wrote it), but it is
modeled on ISOs, specifically because our Blue Books are (were?) on track to become ISO standards.
In any case, half a dozen or so books have been published following the existing patent procedure (its
been in effect for many years now), so picking on this book in particular is a little unfair to the WG. It
makes sense to me to let the book go to review and bring the issue up at the CESG if you really think it
needs redress.
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 7:07 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; 'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; 'Wilmot, Jonathan J.
(GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]'
Cc: Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping
Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Thanks Tom. No issue with the handling of the patent form and exercise of this aspect as part of the
pre-Blue Book prototyping. I agree completely.
My issue, if I can articulate it more clearly, is this:
* There appears to be a patent that covers at least some part of this standard
* A license for use of this patent appears to be required in order to meet the legal rights of the
patent holder
* The patent holder (ESA) has agreed to RAND license terms
* What is the normative reference to the patent?
If it is not possible for the user of this standard to apply it and implement it without acquiring a RAND
license then I do not understand how this patent can be treated as anything but a normative reference.
* Conversely, if no license is required then I would agree that the patent is not a normative
reference.
Is that now clear?
Thanks, Peter
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 3:03 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "'Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)'"
<mark.wong at nasa.gov>, "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: "Lucana.Santos at esa.int" <Lucana.Santos at esa.int>, "David.Evans at esa.int"
<David.Evans at esa.int>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Peter, et al.:
Concerning reference [C6], it is provided only for concept and rationale. So it is not normative,
and I am unsure how it is conflated with the patent-license discussion. I confess I thought it was
an odd short-cut-workaround-half-measure to reference a SpaceOps paper for concept and
rationale, when documenting concept and rationale in a Green Book how it is supposed to be
done, but that does not appear to be the issue holding up release of the Red Book.
Concerning the patent statement, at this (Red Book) stage, the patent information in the annex is
consistent with our procedures, and I believe it is sufficient for Red Book review. It states that a
patent exists and that RAND licensing is available, and it provides contact information for
securing a license. That's all our procedures require. We could have a normative reference to the
actual patent (and I have argued in the past that we should do that), but a requirement to do so is
nowhere stated in our procedures.
The bar will be a little higher when the book comes back for Blue Book approval, at which time
the signed patent form needs to be on file with the CCSDS and exercise of patent licensing needs
to be demonstrated in the interoperability test report.
Tom
Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net
+1 443 472 0805
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 2:58 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670); Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-
580.0)[EMERITUS]
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Mark, et al,
Please see attached notes. I'd like to get this published, but I think you do not have the patent
and other references language quite correct.
Perhaps Tom Gannet has some CCSDS publications guidance that can sort this out.
Regards, Peter
On 4/5/22, 8:25 AM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter, Ignacio and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated Red book and RID. Hope this addresses most of your
concerns.
We also completed the cross verification of this standard. Please also see attached for the
corresponding yellow book.
Please let us know if there is anything else that need further clarification.
Thanks,
Mark Wong
NASA GSFC Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 8:54 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670) <mark.wong at nasa.gov>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int;
Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS] <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Guys,
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I still find some things that just do not seem right to
me. Please review the attached mark up.
The doc in its present form may be clear enough for any of the reviewers who are primarily
interested in the details of the algorithm, but it is missing some surrounding parts that are
relevant for clarity and context.
Peter
On 3/1/22, 1:24 PM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter, Ignacio and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated RID responses and revised CCSDS 124.0 Robust
Compression of Fixed-length housekeeping Data Red book.
If there is anything that need more clarification, please let us know.
Best,
Mark Wong
NASA GSFC Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
-----Original Message-----
From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:57 PM
To: Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670) <mark.wong at nasa.gov>;
Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-580.0)[EMERITUS]
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>
Cc: thomas.gannett at tgannett.net; Lucana.Santos at esa.int; David.Evans at esa.int
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-length
Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) RID responses
Hi Mark,
In general this looks fine. I did find a few issues with the clarity of some of the new
materials and suggested some improvements of wording. In particular, the licensing parts
appeared to me to need clarification.
I also wonder if there is a missing normative reference. See note in Sec 1.6.
See attached.
Thanks, Peter
On 1/19/22, 7:23 AM, "Wong, Englin (GSFC-5670)" <mark.wong at nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi Peter Ignacio, and Jonathan,
Please see attached for the updated CCSDS 124.0-R-1, Robust Compression of Fixed-
length Housekeeping Data red book and the corresponding responses to your comments.
Please let me know if these are satisfactory.
Sincerely,
Mark Wong
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wong, Ph.D.
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Flight Microwave & Telecommunication Systems Branch/Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
B19 Rm S030
Phone: 1-301-286-6549
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: CESG-All <cesg-all-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> On Behalf Of CCSDS
Secretariat
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:15 PM
To: cesg-all at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Cesg-all] Results of CESG Polls closing 10 December 2021
CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-002 Approval to release CCSDS 124.0-R-1,
Robust Compression of Fixed-length Housekeeping Data (Red Book, Issue 1) for CCSDS
Agency review Results of CESG poll beginning 26 November 2021 and ending 10 December
2021:
Abstain: 0 (0%)
Approve Unconditionally: 1 (25%) (Merri) Approve with Conditions: 3 (75%) (Shames,
Aguilar Sanchez, Wilmot) Disapprove with Comment: 0 (0%)
CONDITIONS/COMMENTS:
Peter Shames (Approve with Conditions): At least a first cut at the SANA and
Security sections should be made before this document goes out for agency review. These
sections are empty at present.
Ignacio Aguilar Sanchez (Approve with
Conditions): Section 1.4: please include a short summary of the rationale (less than one
page) and for further detail provide a reference that is easily and publicly available.
Annex B: please fill in all the relevant sections; use other Data Compression standards for
inspiration.
Furthermore, please take the opportunity to update B3 with the latest status of patent
considerations. Consult CCSDS A02.1-Y-4, section 2.4.1. for guidance.
Jonathan Wilmot (Approve with
Conditions): Concur with SEA AD , SANA and
security sections should be present. Any paremeters for configuration that need to be
known by both compressor and decompressor algorithms should be SANA registered with more
formal definitions.
Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved with Conditions
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate
CMC poll after conditions have been addressed
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-
003 Approval to publish CCSDS 414.1-B-3, Pseudo-Noise
(PN) Ranging Systems (Blue Book, Issue 3) Results of CESG poll beginning 26
November 2021 and ending 10 December 2021:
Abstain: 1 (25%) (Merri) Approve Unconditionally: 3 (75%) (Shames,
Aguilar Sanchez, Wilmot) Approve with Conditions: 0 (0%) Disapprove with Comment: 0
(0%) Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved Unconditionally
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate CMC poll
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2021-11-
004 Approval to publish CCSDS 350.1-G-3, Security Threats against Space Missions (Green
Book, Issue 3) Results of CESG poll beginning 26 November 2021 and ending 10 December
2021:
Abstain: 0 (0%)
Approve Unconditionally: 3 (75%) (Merri, Shames, Aguilar Sanchez) Approve with
Conditions: 1 (25%) (Wilmot) Disapprove with Comment: 0 (0%)
CONDITIONS/COMMENTS:
Jonathan Wilmot (Approve with
Conditions): 3.4.10 UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS should also address crew interfaces
which do not interface through ground systems. An issue to discuss is crew inability to safe
themselves when inappropriate security measures lock them out.
Consider adding a Tainted Software section similar to 3.4.11 TAINTED HARDWARE
COMPONENTS. Same logic could apply.
Consider adding some discussion on how
"Probabilities" were determined in treat analysis tables. That would be very useful to the
target audience.
Consider adding some discussion on time distribution. Accurate clocks are key to
navigation and communications protocols such as DTN. Missions have proposed NTP for
vehicle to vehicle time synchronization which brings issues with jumps in time
forward/backwards, time convergence latency, ... which could be threats either intended or
unintended.
Total Respondents: 4
No response was received from the following Area(s):
CSS
SIS
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved with Conditions
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Generate
CMC poll after conditions have been addressed
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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