[CESG] [EXTERNAL] Why not showing SANA Steering Group on CCSDS Web Pages?

Mon Feb 17 10:43:22 UTC 2020

Peter,
        IMO, if SANA would be a technical element it would not need a SSG.
Moreover, if SSG belongs to CMC, resolution for publishing SANA Books 
edited by SGG should come from CMC and not from SEA (even if the SSG Chair 
is the SEA AD).

Regards

Gian Paolo

From:   "Shames, Peter M (US 312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, 
"CCSDS CESG --" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:   13-02-20 19:36
Subject:        Re: [CESG] [EXTERNAL] Why not showing SANA Steering Group 
on CCSDS Web Pages?

Hi Gippo,

Thanks for the feedback.  I pulled out those references to get clear just 
what the stated relationships are.  And I agree that they are a little 
complex.    Let's try and boil it down.

1.      The SANA is a creature (let's leave it at that for now) of the 
CMC, and yet it really is a technical element of CCSDS, not a management 
element.
2.      The SANA gets it's technical guidance from the SSG, so the SSG is 
somehow "above" the SANA.
3.      The SSG is a technical element, but it reports directly to the 
CMC.
4.      The SSG recommendations get reviewed and concurred by the CESG, 
and approved by the CMC, just like all other standards.

The SEA AD is the identified chair in large part because "The Systems 
Engineering Area (SEA) covers system-wide engineering aspects that are so 
pervasive that they span both the Informatics and Telematics Domains. " 
(from a02x1y4c2) and "The System Engineering Area (SEA) supports the work 
of the CCSDS by providing : - Coordination and collaboration with the 
other areas about architectural choices and options" (from SEA Charter 
on-line at https://cwe.ccsds.org/sea/default.aspx).

As a result of this cross-cutting and dual responsibility I do not think 
that the SSG or the SANA belong down in the SEA part of the technical org 
chart.  I think that they have to be appended to the CMC.
And, given that the SANA has both a "management role", in that it manages 
data for the whole CCSDS as assigned by the CMC, and a "technical role", 
in that it provides a technical service and not a management service, it 
probably belongs on both diagrams.

If we were to put the SSG down in the SEA part of the technical org chart 
we would have to show a management line from the SSG up to the "top" of 
the SANA, and that would be awkward.  I think the draft charts I provided 
are roughly correct as they are.

Regards, Peter

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Gian Paolo 
Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM
To: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [CESG] [EXTERNAL] Why not showing SANA Steering Group on 
CCSDS Web Pages?

Peter, 
        thank you fro drawing my attention on the additional drawing. So 
we have two drawing that can/may be affected: 
1) CCSDS Technical Organization @ https://cwe.ccsds.org/default.aspx 
2) CCSDS Management Structure @ 
https://public.ccsds.org/about/ManagementStructure.aspx 
Only the latter shows SANA on the same side of the Secretariat. 
I think this is correct as SANA and Secretariat are not part of the 
Technical organization to which they provide services (and indeed "The 
SANA  provides  this  key  configuration  management  service  for 
CCSDS."). 

However, as you correctly remind us, 
https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/313x0y2.pdf states that the SSG has "to 
provide to the SANA operator technical and programmatic guidance related 
to ongoing operational and policy matters." 
In such a sense I think that while SANA does not belong to the Technical 
Organization, SSG does belong to the Technical Organization. 
It is also true that SSG is appointed by the CMC and that Membership of 
the SANA Steering Group is determined and approved by the CMC but being 
the chair by default the SEA AD, I would rather put it under the SEA 
Umbrella (i.e. showing it in the SEA column of the  CCSDS Technical 
Organization  @ https://cwe.ccsds.org/default.aspx ) even if I can agree 
that it has a special status starting from the fact that people cannot 
just volunteer to be SSG members (as done for normal WG) but the 
membership shall be blessed by CMC. 

Moreover, also keeping in mind that SSG has a tight link to CMC, it is 
also true that the input given is checked first by CESG that is called to 
check the technical contents of the documents including the Annex with 
SANA Considerations. 

I think that an extra box in the SEA Column for the  CCSDS Technical 
Organization diagram would also help in creating the awareness you call 
for. 
Further details can be easily written in the extra tab that would be added 
@ https://cwe.ccsds.org/sea/default.aspx 

My cent (after your valuable input). 

Of course, no problem in discussing this at the next CESG telecon. 

Gippo 

From:        "Shames, Peter M (US 312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov> 
To:        "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, 
"CCSDS CESG --" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> 
Date:        12-02-20 18:26 
Subject:        Re: [EXTERNAL] [CESG] Why not showing SANA Steering Group 
on CCSDS Web Pages? 

Hi Gippo,

You are correct that the SANA is shown on our web pages, but the SSG is 
not.  I think the reason for that is that we wanted to give the SANA and 
the registries prominence for the users of the site.  The SSG is a 
steering group, much like the CESG is a steering group.  The CESG is 
visible on the two org / structure charts that we have, but the focus in 
both is on the WG structure which is where the bulk of the work is done, 
as we all know.  The role of the CESG, and of the SSG, is technical 
oversight.  We are intended to make sure that the right sausage is being 
made and that the sausage is made correctly and without flaws or 
contaminants.

The SSG and its role is introduced in the current CCSDS A02x1y4c2, in Sec 
2.3.1.4.7, on pg 2-8.  This original text dates back to April 2004 when 
CCSDS was re-organized:

The SSG will provide oversight of SANA operations, validate and confirm 
SANA operations, and be the first level of appeal for issues. The SSG can 
be reached at ssg at sanaregistry.org. 
The SSG is further touched upon in the current SANA Role, Responsibilities 
document, CCSDS 313x0y1, in Sec 3.7, on pg 3-3.  This original text dates 
back to July 2011:

A SANA Steering Group (SSG) is appointed by the CMC to provide to the SANA 
operator technical and programmatic guidance related to ongoing 
operational and policy matters. The SSG is delegated responsibility for 
oversight of SANA operations, validation and confirmation of SANA 
operations, and acting as the first level of appeal for issues. 
A more complete description of the SSG was documented in the Registry 
Management Policy, CCSDS 313x1y1, in Sec 4.2.2 SANA Steering Group, on pg 
4-1.  This original text, which references and extends the 313x0y1 text 
quoted above, dates from May 2016:

The membership of the SANA Steering Group is determined and approved by 
the CMC. 
…

The membership of the SANA Steering Group consists of individuals with the 
following responsibilities: 
·         –  SEA AD, chair; 
·         –  SANA Operator (ex officio); 
·         –  Secretariat (ex officio); 
·         –  CMC member; 
·         –  MOIMS area member; 
·         –  CSS area member; 
·         –  SOIS area member; 
·         –  SLS area member; 
·         –  SIS area member. 
Members should also be chosen to ensure agency balance. 
I think it is pretty clear that the SSG reports to the CMC, as does the 
SANA itself.  We could choose to reflect that role and relationship on the 
web site in a couple of different ways graphically.  I have attached draft 
"revised" versions of two different CCSDS website pages as suggestions.  I 
do not have any strong feelings about how we represent the SSG nor even 
whether we do it.  What is most important from my point of view is that 
the CCSDS Areas, and their WG Chairs, become aware of what we are creating 
as a set of inter-related registries and their roles in keeping this as 
useful and coherent as possible.  If updating the CCSDS website pages 
serves that end I am all for it.

On a related note, I will point out that during the typical SSG meetings 
we have had SANA Operator, Secretariat, CMC, SEA, and SLS participation. 
We occasionally have had CSS present. The agencies typically represented 
include: NASA, CNES, and DLR.   I do not think that the other areas 
typically participate at all.  That is their choice, of course, but it 
means that they are choosing not to exercise a role that they have been 
given in steering the SANA.

I suggest that discussing this should be a topic for the next CESG 
telecon.

Best regards, Peter

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Gian Paolo 
Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 1:35 AM
To: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [CESG] Why not showing SANA Steering Group on CCSDS 
Web Pages?

Dear All, 
       I just noticed that the SANA Steering Group (SSG) is not present on 
our CCSDS Web Pages. 
It is not present in the diagram showing the CCSDS Technical Organization 
(see https://cwe.ccsds.org/default.aspx ) 
SANA is mentioned on the Home Page https://public.ccsds.org/default.aspx 
but this is not SSG. 

Considering also the increasing importance of SANA in our activities, I 
wonder whether SSG should be present somewhere on our CCSDS web pages. 

My cent. 

Gian Paolo 
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