[CESG] [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

Andrew.Herd at esa.int Andrew.Herd at esa.int
Thu Sep 5 07:23:05 UTC 2019


Dear Peter,

I have received an invite to register and I am assuming that the following 
part of the proceedings relates to your proposed fora and timing for the 
ECSS e-Glossary presentation and demonstration.



For ISO we provided a high level presentation at the plenary, and then 
more detailed discussion held within the WG - maybe it would also be 
appropriate to follow this type of approach?

Please then let me know how you would like to proceed.

Many thanks,

Andrew

ESA - European Space Agency

Andrew Herd

TEC Knowledge Management Point of Contact
and Senior Standardization Engineer

Standardization and Engineering Knowledge Management (TEC-QR)
Product Assurance and Safety Department

ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, Noordwijk, 2201 AZ, The Netherlands
andrew.herd at esa.int | www.esa.int
T +31 71 5656745




From:   "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:     "Andrew.Herd at esa.int" <Andrew.Herd at esa.int>
Cc:     "Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int" <Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int>, 
"Roger.Jegou at esa.int" <Roger.Jegou at esa.int>, "Laurent.Marchand at esa.int" 
<Laurent.Marchand at esa.int>, CCSDS Secretariat 
<secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG 
Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:   22/06/2019 19:08
Subject:        Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS 
synergies



Hi Andrew,
 
I understood that what you were asking about was an ESA /ECSS workshop on 
Glossaries.  I thought you meant to address this not in the context of 
CCSDS, but in some ESA workshop.
 
>From this email, however, it appears that you are not only wishing to 
address the topic of glossaries, but you (ECSS) propose to come and tell 
CCSDS how to create, write, produce, and review standards.  This is not a 
topic that is suitable for the SEA Systems Engineering WG.  If you wish to 
address that subject I suggest that you ask to bring it to the CCSDS 
Engineering Steering Group as a whole.
 
Please keep in mind that CCSDS has a nearly 40 year history of producing 
international and widely accepted standards for space communications, 
cross support, and interoperability.  We also have a well documented 
process for doing this which works well.  Of course it could be improved, 
and we have made incremental changes in it over the 20 years I have been 
involved in the organization.
 
I have copied the CCSDS Secretariat, who operate the CCSDS document 
processes, and the CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG), so that they 
are aware of this request.
 
I will entertain a discussion just on the subject of glossaries in the 
context of the SEA SAWG meeting.  I may also see if I can get some of the 
TC20/SC14 people who are also interested in this topic to participate at 
that time, during the CCSDS working meetings.
 
Best regards, Peter
 
 
From: "Andrew.Herd at esa.int" <Andrew.Herd at esa.int>
Date: Friday, June 21, 2019 at 11:12 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: "Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int" <Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int>, 
"Roger.Jegou at esa.int" <Roger.Jegou at esa.int>, "Laurent.Marchand at esa.int" 
<Laurent.Marchand at esa.int>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies
 
Dear Peter,

Great response ... you cover all the central issues associated with 
glossary.

However to confirm, we are currently only proposing a ECSS / CCSDS 
glossaries focussed bilateral during the CCSDS fall meeting in Germany. 
This could be a dedicated meeting, or simply a 30 minute presentation 
during your WG activities. 

At this we will present (relative to glossary)
A cleaner improved set of drafting rules
A new way of writing standards
A new process of reviewing standards
An improved way of searching ECSS
A more user friendly approach for users to understand terms and documents
New technology based capabilities 

In all of these aspects we can consider how these capabilities are a way 
of;
Improving standardization ways of working
Improving point of use support in generation of standardization documents 
Allowing users to compare (and select) varying definitions for terms

Our presentation aims to raise awareness of the new ECSS capabilities and 
to ask which areas (if any) CCSDS sees the need for closer collaboration 

When we recently presented to ISO SC14, the hosts British Standarda 
Institute (BSI) were very interested from a "product development " 
perspective (so not so much a content perspective). 

I believe we have a relevant and interesting message and would very much 
hope that this offer is of interest (and is clearly on a non committal 
basis).

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Andrew



Sent from IBM Verse
Shames, Peter M (312B) --- Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - 
possible CCSDS synergies --- 
 

From:
"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:
Andrew.Herd at esa.int
Cc:
Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int, Roger.Jegou at esa.int, Laurent.Marchand at esa.int
Date:
Mon, 17 Jun 2019 7:59 pm
Subject:
Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

 
Dear Andrew,
 
Thank you for reaching out with this information.  You are correct that I 
am the Systems Engineering Area (SEA) Area Director, and in that role that 
I also have cognizance over the CCSDS SANA website and the Glossary that 
we maintain.  That Glossary is updated with terms that have been specified 
in the various CCSDS Blue Book and Magenta Book normative standards that 
we publish.  In some cases there are even definitions that were published 
in an informative Green Book, especially if these provide a useful 
definition that is not otherwise published elsewhere.  As the ECSS 
Glossary Convenor I suspect that you also have a good understanding of the 
sorts of challenges that can be encountered in trying to keep these 
Glossaries up to date, and more importantly (at least in my mind) keeping 
them harmonized.
 
I'll be frank in pointing out that for some time now we have been trying 
to steer CCSDS toward doing this rather challenging "harmonization" task. 
I had one of my JPL guys look at this a while back and we discovered a 
number of inconsistencies which were pointed out to the CCSDS Engineering 
Steering Group (CESG), which is made up of me and the other CCSDS ADs, and 
the CESG chair and deputy.  There is an awareness now and several of the 
areas are doing the work to start to sort out inconsistencies and 
overlaps.  After a quick scan of your Glossary using a simple "packet" 
query, https://ecss.nl/home/glossary/?qry=packet, it appears that you have 
some of the same issues we do, and likely from the same sources.
 
Issues aside, I am not sure just what it is that you are suggesting.  You 
have your registry of terms from ECSS documents, some of which are clearly 
drawn from CCSDS documents.  We have our CCSDS Glossary.  And, as you 
appear to be aware, the TC20/SC14 is also interested in a Glossary and 
would like, I believe, to leverage what already exists in CCSDS, 
TC20/SC13.  I do not know that the IOAG (not IAQG) has a Glossary of their 
own, but they might.  I have not looked into that. 
 
I am supportive of their being a glossary of terms related to space and 
space exploration.  I am also supportive of their being a suitably 
comprehensive, but also flexible, reference architecture so that these 
terms all can be understood relative to a common technical framework that 
is grounded in an architecture.  Along these lines, have you looked at the 
CCSDS Reference Architecture for Space Data Systems (RASDS), CCSDS 
311.0-M-1?  This is the architectural framework we developed years ago. 
And there is a companion pair of documents, the Space Communications Cross 
Support Architecture, an ADD (Green Book) and an ARD Requirements document 
(Magenta Book).  These are CCSDS 901.0-G-1 and CCSDS 901.1-M-1.  Bother 
are to be found on the CCSDS website at 
https://public.ccsds.org/Publications/default.aspx.  These use the RASDS 
framework to describe how some 90 of the CCSDS standards may be deployed 
to create interoperable communications architectures.  Does ECSS have any 
such reference architecture that your standards relate to?
 
Are you proposing that CCSDS and these other organizations participate in 
this ECSS (ESA) workshop in late October?  Is this to be a working meeting 
or mostly presentations?  Did you want us to present our Glossary and 
analyses to you, or were you proposing to only present to us? 
 
Thanks, Peter
 
________________________________________________________

Peter Shames
CCSDS Systems Engineering Area Director

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, MS 301-490
California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA 91109 USA 

Telephone: +1 818 354-5740,  Fax: +1 818 393-6871

Internet:  Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________

We must recognize the strong and undeniable influence that our language 
exerts on our ways of thinking and, in fact, delimits the abstract space 
in which we can formulate - give form to - our thoughts.

Niklaus Wirth
 
 
 
From: "Andrew.Herd at esa.int" <Andrew.Herd at esa.int>
Date: Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 5:06 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: "Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int" <Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int>, "
Roger.Jegou at esa.int" <Roger.Jegou at esa.int>, "Laurent.Marchand at esa.int" <
Laurent.Marchand at esa.int>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies
 
Dear Peter, 

As the ECSS Glossary TF Convenor, I have been asked by the ECSS Technical 
Authority to assess your interest in recent capabilities developed 
relating to e-Glossary. 

Some of these capabilities are already provided on the current public 
website - ecss.nl, whilst others have yet to be released as a mobile app 
and as a plug-in to Microsoft Word (release expected by July 2019). 

We understand that as you are the Area Director -  SYSTEMS ENGINEERING 
AREA (SEA), you oversee the CCSDS Glossary (and e-based Glossary). 

There is a conference / workshop planned for late October, in 
Oberfaffenhoffen, and we were asking to present to you and your colleagues 
these capabilities to assess the opportunity for collaboration. 

We recently presented to IAQG and ISO SC14, and received positive 
feedback. 

Many thanks for your consideration, 

Andrew 

ESA - European Space Agency 

Andrew Herd 

TEC Knowledge Management Point of Contact 
and Senior Standardization Engineer 

Standardization and Engineering Knowledge Management (TEC-QR) 
Product Assurance and Safety Department 

ESTEC 
Keplerlaan 1, Noordwijk, 2201 AZ, The Netherlands 
andrew.herd at esa.int | www.esa.int 
T +31 71 5656745
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