[CESG] Privatize or obscure?: [Secretariat] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

Thu Nov 1 16:32:23 UTC 2018

All,

I have just made the following Mailing List archives “public” again:

CMC
CMC-EXEC
CESG
CESG-EXEC

In the “support fog” that sometimes occurs during Technical and Management Meeting week(s), you sometimes aim to please quickly.

For some reason, I had believed that these 4 lists were “private” in the past, and an error had occurred; which made the “public” again (perhaps the migration to new server in 2016).

I’ll defer to the CESG and or CMC for further instruction.

Thanks,

Brian Oliver
CCSDS IT Tech Support

On Nov 1, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Thomas Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>> wrote:

https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

My view on this is that there is absolutely no reason for these lists to be private.

They are the product of publicly funded Agency activities and are thus in the public domain.

They have been publicly viewable since 2003, and making them private now seems more than a little silly.

As a practical matter, for me, checking the archives is often the only way I can confirm an email I sent to the lists actually was delivered, since I never receive copies of anything I send to the lists. Keeping track of passwords to a bunch of suddenly private archives is simply outside the scope of things I intend to deal with. So I am annoyed.

We work in a complex environment made up of many interconnected things, and seemingly insignificant changes without deliberation to any single thing will always have unforeseen consequences.

Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
+1 443 472 0805<tel:+1%20443%20472%200805>

From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int> [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 5:06 AM
To: Thomas Gannett
Cc: 'Oliver, Brian (HQ-CG000)[Arctic Slope Technical Services, Inc.]'; 'CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec'; 'Shames, Peter M (312B)'
Subject: Privatize or obscure?: [CESG] [Secretariat] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

One additional remark: Right now the link " Click here to view archives" available at https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/default.aspx goes nowhere also fro me CESG Memeber

Should we rather Privatize tha obscure those lists?

Ciao

Gippo

From:        "Thomas Gannett" <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
To:        "'Shames, Peter M \(312B\)'" <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "'Oliver, Brian \(HQ-CG000\)[Arctic Slope Technical Services, Inc.]'" <brian.oliver at nasa.gov<mailto:brian.oliver at nasa.gov>>
Cc:        'CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec' <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Date:        27-10-18 19:25
Subject:        Re: [CESG] [Secretariat] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List        Archives
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>
________________________________

We should also note that Brian’s responsiveness never goes unappreciated. But in this case I think some discussion is needed before action is taken, since oftentimes changes that seem simple and straightforward turn out to have anticipated ramifications.

Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
+1 443 472 0805

From: Thomas Gannett [mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 1:21 PM
To: 'Shames, Peter M (312B)'; 'Oliver, Brian (HQ-CG000)[Arctic Slope Technical Services, Inc.]'
Cc: 'CCSDS Secretariat'; 'CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec'
Subject: RE: [Secretariat] [CESG] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

Peter: Indeed. –Tom

Logothete, L.L.C.
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>
+1 443 472 0805

From: Shames, Peter M (312B) [mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 12:12 PM
To: Thomas Gannett; Oliver, Brian (HQ-CG000)[Arctic Slope Technical Services, Inc.]
Cc: CCSDS Secretariat; CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] [CESG] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

Tom,

Please note that I did not assert any authority over visibility of these lists.  I only raised the issue for discussion.

It was Brian who acted unilaterally to hide the lists.

For the record, Peter

From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 8:29 AM
To: Brian Oliver <brian.oliver at nasa.gov<mailto:brian.oliver at nasa.gov>>
Cc: Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, CCSDS Secretariat <secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:secretariat at mailman.ccsds.org>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] [CESG] FW: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

All this is well and good, but I fail to see any reason to make those lists private. CCSDS is not a secret organization, the work reflected in the archives is publicly funded and neither classified nor sensitive, and nothing is going on in either the CESG or CMC that justifies hiding the list archives.  Beyond that, I believe they were made public by design, and the SEA AD has no authority over the visibility of the CESG and CMC mailing lists.

If a change like this is going to be made, it needs at the very least to have a CMC resolution associated with it to obviate head scratching next time someone asks why the archives are hidden from public view.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:00 PM, Oliver, Brian (HQ-CG000)[Arctic Slope Technical Services, Inc.] <brian.oliver at nasa.gov<mailto:brian.oliver at nasa.gov>> wrote:
All,

I have just made the following Mailing List archives “private”.

CMC
CMC-EXEC
CESG
CESG-EXEC

Thanks,

Brian Oliver
CCSDS IT Tech Support

On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Shames, Peter M (312B) <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>> wrote:

Dear CESG,

AT various times we have talked about the expectation that the CCSDS mailing lists, at least some of them, are closed and therefore private to that group.  This is a particular concern, I think, for the CESG and CMC discussions.  We control who can be added to those lists and also who can post to them.  But it appears that this "privacy" is not really the case since the email list archives are open to being read by anyone at all.

See the following notice from the Sec WG.

Also, see the CMC archives at https://mailman.ccsds.org/pipermail/cmc/

I think we should probably suggest that the Secretariat do something about this.

Regards, Peter

From: Howie Weiss <Howard.Weiss at parsons.com<mailto:Howard.Weiss at parsons.com>>
Date: Friday, October 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM
To: Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: "'Daniel.Fischer'" <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>, Howie Weiss <Howard.Weiss at parsons.com<mailto:Howard.Weiss at parsons.com>>
Subject: Publicly Available CCSDS Mailing List Archives

Peter

I had an action item from the Security WG that I neglected to do at the SEA closing plenary which I now discovered when going through my notes to write up the meeting minutes.

The concern is with the working group mailing list archives.  Anyone, without any authorization, can read the archives.  As a result, we have eliminated any potential for mailing list privacy.  The mail is not just available to the members of the mailing list – they are available to anyone world-wide.

Here’s a screen shot of the CESG archive that I just viewed (and I can read any of the emails listed).

<image001.png>

We believe that this must be fixed ASAP.

Regards

Howie

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