[Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Shames, Peter M (312G)
peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov
Thu Jan 16 17:30:17 EST 2014
Hi brian,
Sounds good to me. I just did not want it to get lost, and since it was not mentioned …
I'll be patient. Let me know if anything else needs clarification. Now's the time to fix it all right for this operational phase.
Thanks, Peter
From: CCSDS Tech Support <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org<mailto:ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>>
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:21 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Cc: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Peter,
The SANA updates are on our long (December went to fast…) to do list, and I have asked Laura to work on this.
The most difficult part (why I assigned it to Laura) will be trying to edit the HTML on the org chart to make it look properly with the new SANA box.
Anyways, she should be starting on it tomorrow; and she will keep it touch with you for feedback.
Thanks,
Brian
From: <Shames>, "Peter M (312G)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014 at 5:13 PM
To: Thomas Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>, Brian Oliver <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org<mailto:ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>>
Cc: "Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>" <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, "cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Tom & Laura,
It's ok to blame me, I have broad shoulders and can take it. And they can always go search for "SANA". Please note that anyone looking for the RF & Mod document (CCSDS B20.0-Y-2<http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/B20x0y2.pdf> ) has had the same problem in reverse for YEARS. So OK, SANA is probably more important at this point.
All of this was documented in a CESG resolution that was approved (CESG-P-2013-11-002 Changes to the CCSDS Website Regarding SANA). The other web site change that was requested at the same time was to add the SANA box as a stem-winder to the CCSDS org chart in the CWE. This should link to the SANA and the SSG. See attached chart as a "vision of beauty". That SANA box was intended to connect to a SANA page, just like the other CCSDS area pages. I provided an example for that as well (also attached). There were other minor CWE changes detailed in the original request. I guess those got lost along the way, but they involve moving the SANA WG docs in the CWE into archived WG status under SEA and creating a new SANA folder to manage the SANA operations. This would also include an SSG folder.
Can we get this done too?
Cheers, Peter
*******************************************************************
SEA-R-2013-10-002, Resolution concerning the SANA and the SANA Steering Group
The CCSDS System Engineering Area:
CONSIDERING that the SANA is now a documented operational element of the CCSDS in A02x1y3;
and RECOGNIZING the SANA Steering Group has been formed to provide technical management oversight, as documented in A02x1y3;
RECOMMENDS that the role and status of the SANA and SSG be properly reflected on the CCSDS web site; including the following:
- That a new SANA web page be created, and
- that the SANA Web Page be linked to the CMC on the CWE, and
- that the Steering Group (SSG) be linked to the SANA web page, and
- that the SANA YB be re-classified as a CCSDS Management Publication, and
- that any other related CCSDS website and CWE updates that are required be guided by the SSG decision process.
and REQUESTS that the CCSDS Engineering Steering Group Chair initiate the required CESG poll for approval.
From: Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014 1:46 PM
To: CCSDS Tech Support <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org<mailto:ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>>
Cc: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Laura: The big problem you will still have to deal with (kind of the reason for the detailed reply) is the people who go to the Yellow Book listing looking for CCSDS 313.0 and then complain that it's not there because it's not where one would expect to find it in the numerical sort. (I'll refer anyone who complains to me to Peter.) --Tom
At 04:37 PM 1/16/2014, ccsds techsupport wrote:
Tom,
Thanks for your detailed reply, even though it was delayed (wish I could help); it was still very helpful.
It appears we can close this action, and no further work is required.
BTW - I have corrected the “italicized” header.
Thanks,
—Laura
From: Thomas Gannett <tomg at aiaa.org<mailto:tomg at aiaa.org>>
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014 at 4:06 PM
To: Brian Oliver < ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org<mailto:ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>>
Cc: "Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int> " <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, "cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> " <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Laura:
The conditions and subsequent e-mail discussion reflect a great lot of confusion, and I don't know if there is an easy way to fix things or whether it is worth the trouble.
The current sort appears to be simply by document number, with a heading beginning before the A--s indicating the books that follow are "management" documents. In fact, the numbering system reserves major topic "A" for management, but major topic "B" covers a broader category that includes meeting minutes and other types of books, so calling everything after the As in the sort "management documents" is not really correct. Moreover, when Bob Stephens reserved "A" for management, he meant "management council": the books currently numbered beginning with "A" are all books that were developed outside working groups and are basically management-council documents, although in the modern period ownership is shared with the CESG.
Peter wanted his SANA book to fall in the "management" section, but he assumed it was a special section when in fact it is simply whatever books follow the heading that is inserted before the "A" series in the sort.
I personally think the best approach is to leave things as they are but get rid of the "Management" and "Technical" headings (one of which is italicized and one of which isn't, by the way).
Of the alternatives, 1) screwing around with the sort so that Peter's 3-- book ends up with the A-- books and the B-- book ends up with the 1s-9s, or 2) renumbering Peter's book to begin with an "A" so that it naturally sorts with other "management" books (we would of course need to come up with other headings for the B, C, D, E, etc., series), I prefer 2. However, renumbering the book would require polling, that's a lot of trouble, and I'm not sure it's worth it; and the SANA Yellow Book was developed by the SANA WG, not the Management Council, so numbering it with an "A" violates the original intent of the "A" assignment, even if I'm the only one who remembers it.
So you should be expected to be a little confused. I don't really think you should do anything until you get clear instruction, in any event.
Tom
At 03:20 PM 1/16/2014, ccsds techsupport wrote:
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Tom,
Brian asked me to take a look into this, and I must confess that I am a little confused.
After reviewing the e-mail chain below, it appears that there is several actions. Can you confirm?
http://public.ccsds.org/publications/YellowBooks.aspx
1) CCSDS 313.0-Y-1 - Move this book the the “Management” Section on the Yellow Book page.
2) CCSDS B20.0-Y-2 - Move this book to the “Technical” Section on the Yellow Book page.
3) Fix the PDF icons in the “Management” section. They appear to be missing.
Thanks,
—Laura
From: Thomas Gannett < thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 at 3:00 PM
To: "Shames, Peter M (312G)" < peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "Barkley, Erik J (3970)" < erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: "Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int> " <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, Brian Oliver <briano at aiaa.org<mailto:briano at aiaa.org>>, "cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> " <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Peter:
Actually, what is going on on the Web site is simply a sort by document number, with a label identifying the Axx books as management (according to our numbering scheme). I am sure there was never any intention to organize books in the list according to their content.
I fully expect Brian to respond that trying to make a 3xx appear at the bottom of the list with the Axx books is going to screw up the sort big time. If you think it's that important, we should probably renumber the SANA YB to begin with A.
Tom
At 02:45 PM 12/17/2013, Shames, Peter M (312G) wrote:
Thanks. That'll fix it as far as I am concerned. And good catch on that other YB, I saw it but didn't want to go there.
Peter
From: Tom Gannett <tomg at aiaa.org<mailto:tomg at aiaa.org>>
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:25 AM
To: Erik Barkley < Erik.J.Barkley at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:Erik.J.Barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Peter Shames < peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>, Brian Oliver <briano at aiaa.org<mailto:briano at aiaa.org>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Secretariat] RE: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Peter:
I am a long-time formality enthusiast, and I am as fond of bureaucracy as anyone, but I suspect all that was needed was for someone to advise Brian that it is a management book. It's probably my fault for not so categorizing it when I delivered it.
Brian:
While we're on the subject, CCSDS B20.0-Y-2 is not a management book.
Tom
At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, Barkley, Erik J (3970) wrote:
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Peter,
Thank you. It’s something of a mystery to me as to why it was not originally “classified” as a management book – ie put in this section of the webpage for yellow books. This clarifies the issue for me and I no longer have a condition for the poll.
-Erik
From: Shames, Peter M (312G)
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:06 AM
To: Barkley, Erik J (3970)
Cc: Brian Oliver; cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>; Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Subject: Re: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Erik,
In regard the specific clause in the request that the SANA Yellow Book, CCSDS 313.0-Y-1 (issued July 2011), "be re-classified as a CCSDS Management Publication", what I was asking was that it be given the same status as the other Yellow Books that are treated as CCSDS Management Publications, such as the Organization and Processes for the Consultative Committee for Space Data Systems. CCSDS A02.1-Y-3 , July 2011 or the CCSDS Publications Manual. CCSDS A20.0-Y-3, December 2011.
We have many Yellow Books, but many of them are just test reports. These are all listed in the "Technical Yellow Books" section of the CCSDS web site located at http://public.ccsds.org/publications/YellowBooks.aspx. What I am specifically requesting is that the SANA YB be moved into the section of this CCSDS Yellow Book page that is titled "Management Yellow Books". This is where the Org & Proc and Pubs manuals are located. No other changes are necessary, but this does signal the official "management book" status of the SANA YB.
Is that acceptable?
Thanks, Peter
From: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int> >
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:11 AM
To: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Cc: Brian Oliver <briano at aiaa.org<mailto:briano at aiaa.org>>
Subject: [CESG] Poll with conditions
Peter
Are you aware of Erik's condition to the poll ?
The website can only be updated once the condition is solved.
ciao
nestor
=========================================
CESG E-Poll Identifier: CESG-P-2013-11-002
Changes to the CCSDS Website Regarding SANA
Results of CESG poll beginning 14 November 2013 and ending 28 November 2013:
Abstain: 0 (0%)
Approve Unconditionally: 5 (83%) (Peccia, Taylor, Calzolari, Shames, Scott)
Approve with Conditions: 1 (17%) (Barkley)
Disapprove with Comment: 0 (0%)
CONDITIONS/COMMENTS:
Erik Barkley (Approve Unconditionally): Please clarify what is meant by
"a CCSDS Management Publication².
I assume by "SANA YB", the resolution is referring to CCSDS 313.0-Y-1
(issued July 2011) ? If so,
is this not already a procedure manual for SANA and as such is this not
already a "Management Publication" ?
I agree with the intent of the poll, but I want to be clear as to what
re-classification implies.
Total Respondents: 6
No response was received from the following Area(s):
SECRETARIAT INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS: Approved with Conditions
PROPOSED SECRETARIAT ACTION: Update website after conditions
are met
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