[CESG] Russian Concept Paper: "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels"

[Barkley, Erik J (3170)]

Adrian,

What do you see as the business case here?

I'm not a telecommunications expert but this strikes me as being a proposal for some sort of generalized besting algorithm.  Do we envision CCSDS member agencies participating in interagency telemetry service besting?   To the best my knowledge I am unaware of any demand for such a distributed telemetry service amongst the world space agencies - we tend to have an enterprise model that says a TTC network delivers frames, not sampled RF (not sure in what domain the besting/"generalization" is being proposed).  Also, what are the real technical limitations with the operations that are performed today? As it currently stands without what is being proposed here we already have communications to the edge of the solar system - what will this improve and for how many missions flying a Voyager type profile, for example? And to what cost to CCSDS and what do CCSDS member agencies drive as a benefit?   I suppose it would possible to consider some sort of situation where rather than build antennas we string lots of less than capable apertures together (e.g., thousands if not millions of coffee cans)  and have them function as an "antenna" each of which participating in some sort of highly elaborate statistical extraction algorithm as a way of not building antennas - ie how to array lots of tiny stuff to get to something more significant than the sum of its parts.    I suppose that could be a business case.  Perhaps I just don't get it, but I'm not sure what the business case is here so any information or insight in that regard would be much appreciated.   I am certainly open to some sort of scenario based use case material.

>From a slightly more technical perspective, I am not sure that the claim that the algorithm applies regardless of the data type truly applies. My sense is that if we have isochronous data delivery (voice,video) there are in fact temporal constraints to make the streaming data operate properly to the extent that the stream is desired as close to Earth receive time as possible.


Best regards,

-Erik

From: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org [mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Hooke, Adrian J (9000)
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:13 AM
To: CESG
Subject: [CESG] Russian Concept Paper: "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels"

Ads and DADs: please take a bit of time to review the attached. Is clear that the Russians view this as some kind of "crown jewel" contribution. Could you please comment on it, particularly with respect to its applicability to CCSDSS and the possibility of finding a way-forward?

Best regards
Adrian

From: mutafyan [mailto:mutafyan at tsniimash.ru]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:38 AM
To: Hooke, Adrian J (9000)
Subject: RE: Concept Paper: "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels"

Dear Mr. Hooke,

I've received your letter of 7 September.
I would like to thank you for your advices. So we will wait for the opinion of Area Directors.

I apologize for so long reply.
Best regards,
Dmitry Barannikov,
The Secretary of the Russian delegation.

From: Hooke, Adrian J (9000) [mailto:adrian.j.hooke at jpl.nasa.gov]<mailto:[mailto:adrian.j.hooke at jpl.nasa.gov]>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:03 PM
To: mutafyan
Cc: Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>; Hooke, Adrian J (9000)
Subject: RE: Concept Paper: "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels"

Dear Mr. Barannikov: thank you very much for the Concept Paper. We will now get the CCSDS Area Directors to review the document and to propose how to move forward.

>From my personal reading of the Concept Paper, it seems to me to be closely aligned with the Delta-DOR activity and perhaps some of the new Cross Support Transfer Services which deal with raw data transfer. So it is possible that the Diverse Channels approach may be satisfied by creating some  extensions to other CCSDS recommendations. Those extensions would  contain all of the semantic information required to do the processing of Diversity data. I would therefor strongly suggest that your people should get involved with the D-DOR activity and achieve a good understanding of its scope: http://cwe.ccsds.org/sea/default.aspx#_SEA-D-DOR

I am also glad to note that you are willing to support this activity in terms of its financial and human resources. If we can agree to an approach that uses existing CCSDS capabilities (e.g., Delta-DOR) then it should be much simpler and cheaper than starting with a whole new development. Also, since this is likely to be an activity that is primarily driven by the Russian side,  it may be best to initially target an "Orange Book" (Experimental) as the initial deliverable.

Best regards
Adrian
Adrian J. Hooke
Chairman, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group
+1-818-653-9553 mobile

From: mutafyan [mailto:mutafyan at tsniimash.ru]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:49 AM
To: Hooke, Adrian J (9000); Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Subject: Concept Paper: "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels"

Dear Mr. Adrian and Mr. Peccia,

I would like to send you the Concept Paper "Formation of the generalized data, using data which are received down diverse channels" , written by Mr. Valery Vorontsov. Before I was advised with Mike about this Concept paper and he said that it seems Ok, but we should decide all problems with patient policy. So I send this Paper to you to make notes  and at the same time we will decide problems with patient policy.

Please let me know your opinion and remarks.

I would like to remind that Russian side takes financial and human resources commitments.

Kind regards,
Dmitry Barannikov,
The Secretary of the Russian delegation.
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