[SOIS-WIR] [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Tue Oct 26 16:00:33 UTC 2021

Dear Kevin, dear all,

I put Gilles Moury in the loop of our formal E-mail related to the consensus broken inside the SOIS-WIR WG.

VBR

Jean-Luc

De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Envoyé : mardi 26 octobre 2021 17:37
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org
Cc : Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; Cascarano, Brian (ASC/CSA) <brian.cascarano at canada.ca>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Objet : Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Jean-Luc, Martin -

Thank you for your informational e-mail.

I am in agreement that this issue is now at the CESG level.

My expectation is the CESG, notably Peter Shames, Marc Ignacio-Sanchez, and Gilles Moury will discuss and strive to resolve.

It may be that the SOIS-WIR WG will need to provide information and/or host a meet-up with the cognizant CESG members.

Thanks again.

Kevin
________________________________
From: SOIS-WIR <sois-wir-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 4:00 AM
To: sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org> <sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: [SOIS-WIR] TR: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Kevin, dear Wireless Working Group Members.

First of all, we would like to express deepest thanks to you, Kevin, for your excellent work which allowed the Wireless Working Group to find a consensus closing the 883 red book Agency Review. The works of our WG mainly concerned the "spectrum text" is currently proposed to be removed, and due to this, we consider to have lost our consensus.

Technically, it is wrong to state that this wireless blue book deals only with communication protocols (layer 2 and above) and therefore does not need to include spectrum allocation requirements and constraints, since this blue book specify the use of terrestrial commercial wireless standard in space. Those commercial standards include RF layer and spectrum bands. Deferring most of spectrum considerations to RF&modulation blue book is not appropriate. In addition, the specific issues related to protection of Radio Astronomy in the Shielded Zone of the Moon, and of the SFCG communication and navigation bands, are additional reasons for  not removing the "spectrum text" proposed to be out of scope.

We therefore propose the publication request to be put on hold by waiting the issue to be discussed at appropriate levels and then solved.

Thank you

Our best regards

Jean-Luc Issler  (CNES)    Martin Drobczyk (DLR)

De : SOIS-WIR <sois-wir-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> De la part de Issler Jean-Luc
Envoyé : lundi 25 octobre 2021 10:56
À : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Cc : Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Objet : Re: [SOIS-WIR] [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear all,

I put Gilles Moury (in CC) in the Loop (with the attachments of my message bellow to our Wireless Working Group)

Very best regards

Jean-Luc

De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Envoyé : dimanche 24 octobre 2021 17:21
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>
Cc : Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov<mailto:raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Objet : Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

[+ Peter Shames, + Thomas Gannett]

________________________________

From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 9:41 AM
To: sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org> <sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org>>; Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int> <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int<mailto:Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Subject: TR: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear CCSDS Wireless Working Group,

I would like to share some informations in case everyone in our WG would be not fully aware of, regarding 883 standard submited to CESG.   I include you in the diffusion list Ignacio, since you participated to some Agency Review discussions in our WG. These informations are contained in the correspondance bellow and in the attachements.

As you could see, the majority of our agency review updated texts are proposed to be removed, that is most of the spectrum texts. As a reminder, this is not "proposed CNES text" as written bellow, but text proposed by our overall Working Group* to process the CNES Agency Review RIDs (that is most of the RIDS of the Agency Review). There is therefore not any more consensus in our WG for the moment.

To better check the importance of the texts which are proposed to be removed, you could see the attached 3 CESG RIDS of Peter Shames proposing to remove these full texts (these RIDS are available on CWE, as all the CESG RIDS, on the form of PIDs). In the attached RIDs, I added my simple personnal opinion just to share it in our WG for transparency, knowing these issues are now delt by CESG and then by CMC.

Thank you for your consideration of this message; see you soon.

Very best regards

Jean-Luc

*for exemple, the full text proposed to be removed in PID SEA 009 883 is a text from DLR, which allowed to our WG to find consensus on this part.

From: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 11:07 AM
To: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>; Shames, Peter M (JPL-312B)[JPL Employee] <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>; Teodomante Sylvain <Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr<mailto:Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr>>; Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811) <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov<mailto:raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Jean-Luc -

CESG Review of CCSDS-883-0-R-0 mandated removing any and all spectrum recommendations sans the statement, "For spectrum allocation missions must coordinate with the responsible entities (SFCG, ITU)".

-- The SOIS-WIR WG must adhere to the CESG guidance per CCSDS rules

-- All of the previously proposed CNES text regarding spectrum requirements has been removed

As a result, and per CESG guidance/mandates, all inserted CNES verbiage concerning spectrum allocation requirements and constraints is out of scope for CCSDS-883-0-R-0.

Kevin

________________________________

From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:05 PM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Teodomante Sylvain <Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr<mailto:Sylvain.Teodomante at cnes.fr>>
Subject: RE: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Kevin,

May I kindly remind you to answer to our question bellow ?

Thank you very much; VBR

Jean-Luc

De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Envoyé : lundi 4 octobre 2021 05:15
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc : Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Objet : Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Jean-Luc -

I confirm I have received your update proposal.  Please let me review and discuss with NASA and CSA this upcoming week.

Thanks.

Kevin

________________________________

From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 11:53 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Subject: RE: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Kevin,

Sorry for the blank/empty part in my E-mail

The CNES update proposal is in the joint extract of the 883 Blue Book

What do you think about this proposal please ?

VBR

Jean-Luc

De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Envoyé : vendredi 1 octobre 2021 16:33
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Cc : Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Objet : Re: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Jean-Luc -

>From your email below I cannot "see" any text (it is blank/empty) for Page 2-11, Page 3-3, Page 3-4, Page 3-5.

Can you "cut-and-paste" the associated paragraphs and highlight where you are suggesting the updates please?

Thanks!

Kevin

________________________________

From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 12:20 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu<mailto:kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>>
Cc: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Subject: A proposal for CCSDS 883 standard

Dear Kevin,

We had discussions in CNES, and wondered it would be not too late  to propose in the upcomming 883 Blue Book the replacement of the word "communication" by the word "communication and navigation" or "communication/navigation", in the following paragraphs of the book. This would be consistent with SFCG 32-2R2 which allocate the concerned band for these 2 services.

What do you think about this request please ? Sorry for this late question; Have a nice day.

Best regards

Jean-Luc

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