From Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int Wed Oct 22 12:36:04 2014 From: Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int (Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:36:04 +0200 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Message-ID: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. Regards, Jean-Francois Dufour Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int To: "CCSDS CESG --" , Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org Dear All, I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: __________________ SLS Responsibilities include: 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). __________________ Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. Gian Paolo This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.j.barton at nasa.gov Wed Oct 22 13:53:49 2014 From: richard.j.barton at nasa.gov (Barton, Richard J. (JSC-EV811)) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:53:49 +0000 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups In-Reply-To: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> References: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> Message-ID: Yay! Tell Chris we all owe him a beer or two. Rick Richard J. Barton, Ph.D. Wireless and Communication Systems Branch NASA Johnson Space Center 2101 NASA Parkway Mail Code EV811 Houston, TX 77058 281-483-1444 (office) 281-483-5830 (fax) 713-818-4076 (cell) From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int" > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 at 7:36 AM To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org" > Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. Regards, Jean-Francois Dufour Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int To: "CCSDS CESG --" >, Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org ________________________________ Dear All, I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: __________________ SLS Responsibilities include: 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). __________________ Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. Gian Paolo This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warp at polylab.sfu.ca Wed Oct 22 14:27:07 2014 From: warp at polylab.sfu.ca (Stephen Braham) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:27:07 -0700 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups In-Reply-To: References: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> Message-ID: <5447BEBB.9010005@polylab.sfu.ca> Great! Although I do see _one_ issue - the use of the words "Commercial" and "CCSDS" to delineate things. If we write a Blue, isn't that now a CCSDS PHY/MAC? It seems to promulgate the idea of "CCSDS" standards as special homespun solutions for spaceflight, which really needs to end... Steve On 2014-10-22, 6:53 AM, Barton, Richard J. (JSC-EV811) wrote: > Yay! Tell Chris we all owe him a beer or two. > > Rick > > Richard J. Barton, Ph.D. > Wireless and Communication Systems Branch > NASA Johnson Space Center > 2101 NASA Parkway > Mail Code EV811 > Houston, TX 77058 > 281-483-1444 (office) > 281-483-5830 (fax) > 713-818-4076 (cell) > > > From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int > "

> > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 at 7:36 AM > To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org " > > > Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS > Placom working groups > > Dear Colleagues, > > Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless > and the PLACOM group. > > Regards, > > Jean-Francois Dufour > Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group > > > > ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- > > From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int > > To: "CCSDS CESG --" >, > Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 > Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) > Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Dear All, > I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap > issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today > the following split of responsibilities: > > __________________ > SLS Responsibilities include: > 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications > 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data > link and physical layer protocols > 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground > and space-space links > > SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary > Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and > develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to > the points 1..3 listed above. > > SOIS Responsibilities include: > A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network > technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat > and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. > B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio > Frequency bands > > SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and > vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance > requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue > Books) according to the points A..B listed above. > > Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas > are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if > not consistent now). > __________________ > > Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles > for the pro active collaboration. > > > Gian Paolo > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. > The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its > content is not permitted. > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. > Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > Sois-wir mailing list > Sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org > http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir -- Stephen P. Braham, BSc, PhD, ARCS Director, PolyLAB warp at polylab.sfu.ca TIME Centre (tel) 778 782-7981 Simon Fraser University (fax) 778 782-7980 Harbour Centre Campus http://team.polylab.sfu.ca/~warp/ Vancouver, BC, Canada Twitter: warp Callsign: VA7TMI PolyLAB: From the Classroom to Space, http://polylab.sfu.ca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.taylor at esa.int Wed Oct 22 14:31:35 2014 From: chris.taylor at esa.int (chris.taylor at esa.int) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:31:35 +0200 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups In-Reply-To: <5447BEBB.9010005@polylab.sfu.ca> References: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> <5447BEBB.9010005@polylab.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <29474_1413988298_5447BFCA_29474_598_1_OF995FB063.B8F779D5-ONC1257D79.004F7CAD-C1257D79.004FCC2F@esa.int> Guys, I don't think you should worry anymore. We can always argue over words but the main thing is that it has been acknowledged that the scope of the wireless goes beyond intra spacecraft and your work is applicable to external and surface applications. I look forward to reviewing new initiatives from the group, see u in London for a beer, //ct From: Stephen Braham To: sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org, Date: 22/10/2014 16:27 Subject: Re: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Sent by: sois-wir-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org Great! Although I do see _one_ issue - the use of the words "Commercial" and "CCSDS" to delineate things. If we write a Blue, isn't that now a CCSDS PHY/MAC? It seems to promulgate the idea of "CCSDS" standards as special homespun solutions for spaceflight, which really needs to end... Steve On 2014-10-22, 6:53 AM, Barton, Richard J. (JSC-EV811) wrote: Yay! Tell Chris we all owe him a beer or two. Rick Richard J. Barton, Ph.D. Wireless and Communication Systems Branch NASA Johnson Space Center 2101 NASA Parkway Mail Code EV811 Houston, TX 77058 281-483-1444 (office) 281-483-5830 (fax) 713-818-4076 (cell) From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int" Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 at 7:36 AM To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org" Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. Regards, Jean-Francois Dufour Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int To: "CCSDS CESG --" , Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org Dear All, I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: __________________ SLS Responsibilities include: 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). __________________ Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. Gian Paolo This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ Sois-wir mailing list Sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir -- Stephen P. Braham, BSc, PhD, ARCS Director, PolyLAB warp at polylab.sfu.ca TIME Centre (tel) 778 782-7981 Simon Fraser University (fax) 778 782-7980 Harbour Centre Campus http://team.polylab.sfu.ca/~warp/ Vancouver, BC, Canada Twitter: warp Callsign: VA7TMI PolyLAB: From the Classroom to Space, http://polylab.sfu.ca/ _______________________________________________ Sois-wir mailing list Sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From kevin.gifford at Colorado.EDU Wed Oct 22 14:36:13 2014 From: kevin.gifford at Colorado.EDU (Kevin K Gifford) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:36:13 -0600 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups In-Reply-To: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> References: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> Message-ID: Chris - Thank you very much for your assistance in this regard. The CESG clarification is timely and needed. I have one observation which might become relevant. Regarding the agreement for SOIS that: "SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat" There may be some debate over the exact definition of "proximity", e.g., how far from a planetary wireless infrastructure point. I'm thinking of the "golden scenario" of a rover traversing several kilometers from a planetary surface infrastructure point. I think (stating my view, not committing anyone else) that planetary surface communication networks and infrastructure (e.g., surface communications networks) are the domain of SOIS and anything space-to-ground is SLS. The argument that I would like to avoid is: "Well, the rover is X km from the habitat so the communications link is the responsibility of SLS, even though the communications are all over the ground network." I'm probably being somewhat anal, but we've gone round-and-round with Jean-Luc Gerner in this regard previously. I guess we can cross this bridge if/when we come to it. Thanks again Chris, very much appreciated. Kevin From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int" > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 AM To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org" > Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. Regards, Jean-Francois Dufour Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int To: "CCSDS CESG --" >, Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org ________________________________ Dear All, I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: __________________ SLS Responsibilities include: 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). __________________ Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. Gian Paolo This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheynin at aanet.ru Wed Oct 22 17:04:18 2014 From: sheynin at aanet.ru (Yuriy Sheynin) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:04:18 +0400 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLSPlacom working groups In-Reply-To: References: <32511_1413981366_5447A4B6_32511_6345_1_OF6FAA6449.94BB070F-ONC1257D79.0044C498-C1257D79.004538C6@esa.int> Message-ID: <6CCD5E33037F4B47A7440455935A5FF7@LocalHost> Dear colleagues, Exactly, the definition of "proximity" is crucial for reasoning about the wireless interconnections. And for me it has twofold point of view to the proximity: 1) from the point of view of applications; the discussion looks to go mainly this way; 2) from the point of view of the technology. As the CCSDS more adapt existing technologies than developing original ones, the second point of view is important also when we discuss a range of wireless technology. For instance, for me the WiFi area for high-rate links or ZigBee for low-rate define what is proximate and what is not. And a a rover traversing several kilometers is definitely out of the range of this proximity. WiFi/ZigBee area is quite enough for most onboard networking and to overload onboard networking with technologies for 10 km doesn’t look reasonable. May be we need to define a proximity scale keeping in mind both applications and available technology in its definition. Kind regards, Yuriy --------------------- Yuriy Sheynin Professor, Doctor of Science Head of the Chair of Aerospace Computer and Software Systems Director of the Institute for High-Performance Computer and Network Technologies St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace Instrumentation 67, Bolshaya Morskaya st. 190 000, St. Petersburg RUSSIA Phone/Fax: +7 812 710 6234; E-mail: sheynin at aanet.ru From: Kevin K Gifford Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 PM To: Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int ; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org ; chris.taylor at esa.int Subject: Re: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLSPlacom working groups Chris - Thank you very much for your assistance in this regard. The CESG clarification is timely and needed. I have one observation which might become relevant. Regarding the agreement for SOIS that: "SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat" There may be some debate over the exact definition of "proximity", e.g., how far from a planetary wireless infrastructure point. I'm thinking of the "golden scenario" of a rover traversing several kilometers from a planetary surface infrastructure point. I think (stating my view, not committing anyone else) that planetary surface communication networks and infrastructure (e.g., surface communications networks) are the domain of SOIS and anything space-to-ground is SLS. The argument that I would like to avoid is: "Well, the rover is X km from the habitat so the communications link is the responsibility of SLS, even though the communications are all over the ground network." I'm probably being somewhat anal, but we've gone round-and-round with Jean-Luc Gerner in this regard previously. I guess we can cross this bridge if/when we come to it. Thanks again Chris, very much appreciated. Kevin From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int" Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 AM To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org" Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. Regards, Jean-Francois Dufour Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int To: "CCSDS CESG --" , Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear All, I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: __________________ SLS Responsibilities include: 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). __________________ Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. Gian Paolo This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Sois-wir mailing list Sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris.Taylor at esa.int Wed Oct 22 17:49:17 2014 From: Chris.Taylor at esa.int (Chris.Taylor at esa.int) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:49:17 +0200 Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLSPlacom working groups In-Reply-To: <6CCD5E33037F4B47A7440455935A5FF7@LocalHost> Message-ID: <29064_1414000148_5447EE14_29064_111_1_80F59186-4185-4145-97E7-5BC5FB3C35BB@esa.int> Gentlemen, I would very much advise the wg to stop this thread. You have been handed a very clear mandate after a lot of discussion and wrangling to which, thankfully, you have not been exposed. The SOIS wireless area now has the opportunity to develop standards which go beyond the confines of a spacecraft. If this is 1 or 10,000 metres is not important. Please turn your attention to mission needs and ignore the polemics. Our role is to produce useful outputs that users will adopt because they suit their needs. There is enough space for everyone to contribute, so let's get on with the real work, End of after diner lecture //ct Sent from my iPad > On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:11, Yuriy Sheynin wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > Exactly, the definition of "proximity" is crucial for reasoning about the wireless interconnections. > > And for me it has twofold point of view to the proximity: > 1) from the point of view of applications; the discussion looks to go mainly this way; > 2) from the point of view of the technology. > As the CCSDS more adapt existing technologies than developing original ones, the second point of view is important also when we discuss a range of wireless technology. > For instance, for me the WiFi area for high-rate links or ZigBee for low-rate define what is proximate and what is not. And a a rover traversing several kilometers is definitely out of the range of this proximity. > WiFi/ZigBee area is quite enough for most onboard networking and to overload onboard networking with technologies for 10 km doesn’t look reasonable. > May be we need to define a proximity scale keeping in mind both applications and available technology in its definition. > > Kind regards, > > Yuriy > --------------------- > Yuriy Sheynin > Professor, Doctor of Science > Head of the Chair of Aerospace Computer and Software Systems > Director of the Institute for High-Performance Computer and Network Technologies > St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace Instrumentation > 67, Bolshaya Morskaya st. > 190 000, St. Petersburg > RUSSIA > Phone/Fax: +7 812 710 6234; > E-mail: sheynin at aanet.ru > > From: Kevin K Gifford > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 PM > To: Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int ; sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org ; chris.taylor at esa.int > Subject: Re: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLSPlacom working groups > > Chris - > > Thank you very much for your assistance in this regard. The CESG clarification is timely and needed. > > I have one observation which might become relevant. Regarding the agreement for SOIS that: > > "SOIS Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat" > > There may be some debate over the exact definition of "proximity", e.g., how far from a planetary wireless infrastructure point. I'm thinking of the "golden scenario" of a rover traversing several kilometers from a planetary surface infrastructure point. I think (stating my view, not committing anyone else) that planetary surface communication networks and infrastructure (e.g., surface communications networks) are the domain of SOIS and anything space-to-ground is SLS. > > The argument that I would like to avoid is: "Well, the rover is X km from the habitat so the communications link is the responsibility of SLS, even though the communications are all over the ground network." > > I'm probably being somewhat anal, but we've gone round-and-round with Jean-Luc Gerner in this regard previously. I guess we can cross this bridge if/when we come to it. > > Thanks again Chris, very much appreciated. > > Kevin > > From: "Jean-Francois.Dufour at esa.int" > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 AM > To: "sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org" > Subject: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups > > Dear Colleagues, > > Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group. > > Regards, > > Jean-Francois Dufour > Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working Group > > > > ----- Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19 ----- > > From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int > To: "CCSDS CESG --" , > Date: 21/10/2014 18:01 > Subject: [CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and SLS) > Sent by: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org > > > > Dear All, > I would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of responsibilities: > > __________________ > SLS Responsibilities include: > 1) point-to-point links for Planetary Communications > 2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols > 3) consideration of usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links > > SLS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed above. > > SOIS Responsibilities include: > A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or habitat. > B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of Radio Frequency bands > > SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points A..B listed above. > > Charters and CWE Projects of the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above set of responsibilities (if not consistent now). > __________________ > > Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris and Gilles for the pro active collaboration. > > > Gian Paolo > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. > The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its > content is not permitted. > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. > Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > _______________________________________________ > Sois-wir mailing list > Sois-wir at mailman.ccsds.org > http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: