From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Sep 15 20:22:05 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:22:05 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] Registration for CCSDS Meetings in Oct. at ESTEC Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E3029@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Registration for the Fall CCSDS meeting is now open: http://www.congrex.nl/09m34/ If you go instead to the CCSDS Fall meeting page at http://public.ccsds.org/meetings/DispForm.aspx?ID=83 you'll be directed to the site above, which has been set up by ESA for registration. Please register at your earliest convenience. So far the current schedules concerning the WGs associated with this email are as follows: NGU WG meets Monday Oct 26 all day expect for the first hour dedicated to the CCSDS Plenary Session Note: There is a Cocktail Welcome planned for Monday Evening SLS-SLP WG meets Tue. Oct 27 all day SIS-IPO meets Wed AM SLS-SLP & SLS-NGU has a joint meeting with the RNG, C&S, and RF&MOD WGs on Oct. 28 Wed PM Note also that there is a conference dinner scheduled that evening I am currently corresponding with Rodney Grubbs to see if SLS-SLP will have a joint WG meeting on Thur. Oct 29 with the SIS-MIA (Motion Imaging) WG. This is tentatively scheduled for Oct. 29 PM SLS area plenary is on Friday Oct 30 PM. SIS area plenary is TBD. Best regards. Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Sep 17 18:39:28 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:39:28 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] (no subject) Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E32D3@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Dear WG members: Rodney Grubbs has asked for a joint meeting of SIS-MIA with SLS-SLP and SIS-IPO WGs on Thur. PM Oct 29. Please try and attend this meeting. The overall schedule of meetings for our WGs are: 8-9 AM CCSDS General Plenary Oct 26 Monday 9-5 SLS-NGU WG Oct 26 Monday 8-5 SLS-SLP WG Oct 27 Tuesday 8-12 SIS-IPO WG Oct 28 Wed 13-17 SLS joint meetings Oct 28 Wed 13-17 joint SLS-SLP, SIS-IPO, SIS-MIA meeting, Oct 29 Thursday 8-12 PLAComm SIG, Oct 30 Friday 13-17 SLS Plenary, Oct 30 Friday Best regards, Greg Kazz o Deadline for providing input indications/agenda topics: 20th September 2009. o Deadline for providing input papers: 11th October 2009 (i.e. Sunday 2 weeks before meetings start). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Sep 17 18:41:18 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:41:18 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] SLS-SLP, SLS-NGU, SIS-IPO WG Meetings in Noordwijk Oct 26-30 2009 In-Reply-To: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E32D3@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> References: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E32D3@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E32D4@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Sorry - I forgot to enter the subject of this email o Deadline for providing input indications/agenda topics: 20th September 2009. o Deadline for providing input papers: 11th October 2009 (i.e. Sunday 2 weeks before meetings start). From: sls-hru-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org [mailto:sls-hru-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Kazz, Greg J (313B) Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:39 AM To: sls-hru at mailman.ccsds.org; sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org; sis-ipo at mailman.ccsds.org Subject: [Sls-NGU] (no subject) Dear WG members: Rodney Grubbs has asked for a joint meeting of SIS-MIA with SLS-SLP and SIS-IPO WGs on Thur. PM Oct 29. Please try and attend this meeting. The overall schedule of meetings for our WGs are: 8-9 AM CCSDS General Plenary Oct 26 Monday 9-5 SLS-NGU WG Oct 26 Monday 8-5 SLS-SLP WG Oct 27 Tuesday 8-12 SIS-IPO WG Oct 28 Wed 13-17 SLS joint meetings Oct 28 Wed 13-17 joint SLS-SLP, SIS-IPO, SIS-MIA meeting, Oct 29 Thursday 8-12 PLAComm SIG, Oct 30 Friday 13-17 SLS Plenary, Oct 30 Friday Best regards, Greg Kazz o Deadline for providing input indications/agenda topics: 20th September 2009. o Deadline for providing input papers: 11th October 2009 (i.e. Sunday 2 weeks before meetings start). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Sep 18 18:30:28 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:30:28 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] Proximity-1 Reference Implementations Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E340B@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> All, Unnikrishnan E Head, Digital Commn. Section, Digital System Group, ISAC, Bangalore, India Has asked me if any CCSDS agency has reference implementations of the Proximity-1 protocol available for ISRO to carry out protocol testing. Please let me know if your Agency does have a reference implementation of Proximity-1 and if it is available to other agencies to use in testing. Best regards, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Sep 18 18:38:28 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:38:28 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] RE: proximity-1 clarifications In-Reply-To: <847403.33338.qm@web112503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E32D4@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> <847403.33338.qm@web112503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E3410@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Dear Unnikrishnan E We are working on your questions and we will have a reply back to you by next week. Thank you for your inquiry. Best regards, Greg Kazz Chairman CCSDS SLS-SLP WG From: Unnikrishnan E [mailto:unnikrishnane at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:10 PM To: Kazz, Greg J (313B) Cc: slp at mailman.ccsds.org Subject: proximity-1 clarifications Dear Sir, We are implementing CCSDS proximity-1 protocol by referring to Recommended Standard CCSDSS 211.0-B-4 Blue Book July 2006 and Green book for additional information. Request to clarify the following points for our implementation. 1. SCID (Spacecraft ID) Do the Proximity link and TC link on an Orbiter share the same SCID (space craft id) or two separate SCIDs will be allotted. 2. ASM ( Attached Synchronization Marker) When convolutional coding is not selected any error is allowed in the ASM (24 bits) for synchronization. When convolutional coding is selected is ASM also convolutionally encoded. 3. Data Ambiguity Resolution What is the suggested method for data ambiguity resolution if it is not performed by the Physical layer. Is phase ambiguity always resolved at the physical layer by eg., with differential modulation technique. 4. Removal of IDLEs at receiving side Is searching for the first occurrence of ASM in the received bits sufficient to remove the IDLEs. 5. Synchronization Procedure Is searching for the first occurrence of ASM in the received bits sufficient for synchronization. How any ‘bit slips’ or patterns of ASM in the data bits are taken care in the protocol. 6. Variable and Fixed frame length. Is there any difference in the synchronization procedure for variable length frame and fixed length frame. I came across a suggestion to use fixed frame length when BER is poorer than 10x-6. Please comment. 7. Availability of Reference Implementations Is any standard reference implementation (hardware or software) available for carrying out protocol testing. Thanking you, Unnikrishnan E Head, Digital Commn. Section, Digital System Group, ISAC, Bangalore, India -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Sep 23 19:16:45 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:16:45 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] Agenda for SLS-SLP WG Meeting at ESTEC Oct 27, 2009 Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E383A@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> All, Attached please find a power point presentation containing the agenda for the CCSDS SLS-SLP WG. Note that the order of agenda items will be decided upon at the meeting. However some preferences are already stated in this attachment. Also Note that the SLS-SLP meeting is schedule from 8AM to 5PM on Tue. Oct 27 in a TBD room at ESTEC. There will also be a joint meeting with RFM, C&S, Ranging working groups with SLP on Wed. Oct 28 from 1PM to 5PM. Agenda is TBD but focusing on NGU and OCM issues. A joint meeting between SIS-IPO, SIS-MIA, and SLS-SLP WGs is scheduled for Thur. Oct. 29 1PM to 5PM. Rodney Grubbs, SIS-MIA chairman will provide a primer of MIA and agenda topics. Please let me know if you would like to add topics or have comments to the proposed agenda for SLS-SLP WG. Best regards, Greg Chairman CCSDS SLS-SLP WG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SLS-SLP_Agenda_Oct_27_2009_ESTEC.pptx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.presentationml.presentation Size: 123674 bytes Desc: SLS-SLP_Agenda_Oct_27_2009_ESTEC.pptx URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Sep 24 23:49:18 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:49:18 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] FW: proximity-1 clarifications Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E3A49@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> For your information. Greg From: Kazz, Greg J (313B) Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:45 PM To: 'Unnikrishnan E' Cc: slp at mailman.ccsds.org Subject: RE: proximity-1 clarifications Dear Unnikrishnan E, My answers are below in between ** **. Best regards, Greg Kazz Chairman CCSDS SLS-SLP WG From: Unnikrishnan E [mailto:unnikrishnane at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:10 PM To: Kazz, Greg J (313B) Cc: slp at mailman.ccsds.org Subject: proximity-1 clarifications Dear Sir, We are implementing CCSDS proximity-1 protocol by referring to Recommended Standard CCSDSS 211.0-B-4 Blue Book July 2006 and Green book for additional information. Request to clarify the following points for our implementation. 1. SCID (Spacecraft ID) Do the Proximity link and TC link on an Orbiter share the same SCID (space craft id) or two separate SCIDs will be allotted. ** The orbiter is only assigned one spacecraft ID for all space links. There is the concept of a Global SCID (GSCID) as well. It consists of the SCID plus the Transfer Frame Version Number. ** 2. ASM ( Attached Synchronization Marker) When convolutional coding is not selected any error is allowed in the ASM (24 bits) for synchronization. ** implementation dependent as to how many bit errors are allowed in the ASM by the frame synchronization process – typically very few bit errors in the ASM are allowed ** When convolutional coding is selected is ASM also convolutionally encoded. ** correct ** 3. Data Ambiguity Resolution What is the suggested method for data ambiguity resolution if it is not performed by the Physical layer. Is phase ambiguity always resolved at the physical layer by eg., with differential modulation technique. ** CCSDS documents say to use ASM to resolve data ambiguity. ** ** I will forward your question about phase ambiguity resolution on to my colleague, Dennis Lee for an answer ** 4. Removal of IDLEs at receiving side Is searching for the first occurrence of ASM in the received bits sufficient to remove the IDLEs. ** I don’t understand what you mean by “remove IDLE data” in this context, however IDLE data should be ignored until the first occurrence of the ASM is detected. ** 5. Synchronization Procedure Is searching for the first occurrence of ASM in the received bits sufficient for synchronization. How any ‘bit slips’ or patterns of ASM in the data bits are taken care in the protocol. ** This ASM pattern was chosen as to minimize the probability of that pattern occurring in the data (low autocorrelation). ** 6. Variable and Fixed frame length. Is there any difference in the synchronization procedure for variable length frame and fixed length frame. I came across a suggestion to use fixed frame length when BER is poorer than 10x-6. Please comment. **Here again we are talking about implementation issues. Fixed length frame synchronization is easier to implement. However, We envisioned Prox-1 to transfer messages across the Proximity Link. Messages are typically of variable length and are most efficiently transported over an asynchronous data link. However some agencies have implemented Prox-1 having the transmitter generating fix length frames, but having the receiver handle both fixed and variable length frames. From a performance point of view, the fixed length frame synchronization typically would achieve synchronization much faster than on a variable length frame. ** 7. Availability of Reference Implementations Is any standard reference implementation (hardware or software) available for carrying out protocol testing. ** I will poll the CCSDS agencies to find out who has such an implementation and if it is available. For example, NASA/JPL has some of the Proximity-1 functions in a reference implementation, but I am currently uncertain about it’s availability. ** Thanking you, Unnikrishnan E Head, Digital Commn. Section, Digital System Group, ISAC, Bangalore, India -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int Fri Sep 25 09:56:30 2009 From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int (Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:56:30 +0200 Subject: [Sls-slp] Agenda for SLS-SLP WG Meeting at ESTEC Oct 27, 2009 In-Reply-To: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E383A@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Message-ID: Dear All, Note that with respect to item #3 on slide 2, no COP-1 modification is proposed despite some changes are proposed for the relevant book; i.e. no change to the COP-1 state tables are foreseen. Ciao Gian Paolo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int Fri Sep 25 10:04:36 2009 From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int (Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:04:36 +0200 Subject: [Sls-slp] Agenda for SLS-SLP WG Meeting at ESTEC Oct 27, 2009 In-Reply-To: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E383A@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Message-ID: With respect to item 7 on slide 2, namely: Hold on changes proposed to AOS & TM regarding common terminology for fill/idle frames, CRC pink sheets, APID definition (AOS vs TM/TC) until FSH and Insert Zone Proposal Approved I think we should decouple the issues; i.e. 1) APID definition only affects SPP and this book should be released ASAP 2) indeed FSH, idle/oid frames etc are affecting the same books and they can be seen in the same pot.... Thank you for considering Gian Paolo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Sep 25 16:19:20 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:19:20 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] Agenda for SLS-SLP WG Meeting at ESTEC Oct 27, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E383A@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F45BF1E3A8A@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> I agree we should move forward on the SPP book. Greg From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int] Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:05 AM To: Kazz, Greg J (313B) Cc: sls-slp at mailman.ccsds.org; sls-slp-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org Subject: Re: [Sls-slp] Agenda for SLS-SLP WG Meeting at ESTEC Oct 27, 2009 With respect to item 7 on slide 2, namely: Hold on changes proposed to AOS & TM regarding common terminology for fill/idle frames, CRC pink sheets, APID definition (AOS vs TM/TC) until FSH and Insert Zone Proposal Approved I think we should decouple the issues; i.e. 1) APID definition only affects SPP and this book should be released ASAP 2) indeed FSH, idle/oid frames etc are affecting the same books and they can be seen in the same pot.... Thank you for considering Gian Paolo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Sep 30 15:32:02 2009 From: greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov (Kazz, Greg J (313B)) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:32:02 -0700 Subject: [Sls-slp] PLOP-1 - Agency positions Message-ID: <02D130BD9C29BB4AAD59B77342F7E25F461A476852@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL> Dear SLS-SLPers, For discussion at the joint meetings at ESTEC on Wed. Oct 28 in the afternoon, please attend for the discussion of how we want the specification of PLOP-1 and PLOP-2 to be revised. The NASA position is to depreciate PLOP-1, since none of our spacecraft use it, nor plan to use it in the future. This is because technology advancements in receiver design have made it obsolete in our opinion. The ESA position is below. Please come prepared to discuss your agency's position then. Best regards, Greg Kazz From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:32 AM To: Kazz, Greg J (313B) Cc: Jean-Luc.Gerner at esa.int; Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int Subject: PLOP-1: ESA position Greg, wrt PLOP-1, ESA propose to include a statement like the one we have in ECSS-E-ST-50-04C(31July2008) a. PLOP-2 should be used in preference to PLOP-1. NOTE PLOP-2 supports a higher data throughput on the physical telecommand channel. PLOP-1 is included here for completeness and is used, for example, by ground systems and for cross support. We can discuss this in ESTEC Regards Gian Paolo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: