[Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Tue Apr 18 09:40:56 UTC 2017

Greg,

OK, I will insert this point in SDLS WG agenda.

Regards,
Gilles

Gilles MOURY
CNES Toulouse
De : Kazz, Greg J (312B) [mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov]
Envoyé : mercredi 12 avril 2017 17:30
À : Moury Gilles; Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int
Cc : Daniel.Fischer at esa.int; Greenberg, Edward (312B); sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org
Objet : Re: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Gilles,

Thursday at 13:30 (after the lunch) is good.
SLP WG is meeting in a room next to the Cafeteria (Cafeteria 3 i.e., C-3) so I recommend the two groups meet there.
I will add it to the SLP WG agenda.

Regards,
Greg

From: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 6:09 AM
To: "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>, Greg Kazz <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: "Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>" <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>, "Greenberg, Edward (312B)" <edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>" <sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: RE: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

We could also schedule a 1H30 session on Thursday morning or afternoon when both SLP and SDLS WG meet.

Gilles MOURY
CNES Toulouse
De : Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int> [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int]
Envoyé : mardi 11 avril 2017 19:33
À : Kazz, Greg J (312B)
Cc : Moury Gilles; Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>; Greenberg, Edward (312B); sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Objet : Re: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

If you do that first thing on friday am somebody from sdls may be able to attend too.

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Apr 2017, at 18:37, Kazz, Greg J (312B) <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>> wrote:
I think it is a good proposal and it is a topic we will address during the SLP WG meeting on Friday AM and perhaps also it could be discussed during the SDLS meeting on Wed.
However, we don’t have a SLS area joint meeting scheduled in San Antonio.
Perhaps we could take some time on Friday afternoon in the SLS plenary to come up with a joint way forward based upon the discussions in those other two forums.

G.P. – what do you think?

Thanks!
Greg

From: Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>
Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 4:08 AM
To: "Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>" <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>, "Greenberg, Edward (312B)" <edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: Greg Kazz <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>" <sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>>, Calzolari Gian-Paolo <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>
Subject: RE: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Dear Ed,

I tend to agree with Daniel : this problem of GVCID ambiguity for bidirectional spacelinks is a general problem that will be encountered not only by SDLS EP (for SA management procedures) but also for all bidirectional protocols like AOS, USLP for which GVCID does not carry the direction (forward or return) of the VC we are dealing with. The solution you propose to introduce 2 new IDs (GVCIDS, GVCIDR) would solve the ambiguity but needs to be agreed SLS-wide. Greg and Gian-Paolo: what is your opinion ?

Best regards,

Gilles

Gilles MOURY
CNES Toulouse
De : Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int> [mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int]
Envoyé : mardi 11 avril 2017 12:32
À : Greenberg, Edward (312B)
Cc : Moury Gilles; Kazz, Greg J (312B); sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Objet : RE: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Dear Ed,

Sorry for not coming back to you earlier. I think we will discuss your recommendation in the upcoming meetings.
In my opinion the scope of the impact of the new definitions of the GVCIDR/S is not limited to SDLS or SDLS Extended Procedures and needs to be discussed in a wider frame.

Cheers,
Daniel

Dr. Daniel Fischer
Head of the Engineering Support Section, OPS-GES
Ground Systems Engineering Department
Directorate of Operations

ESA - ESOC
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5, D-64392 Darmstadt, Germany

Tel. +49 6151 90 2718 |  E-mail: Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>

From:        "Greenberg, Edward (312B)" <edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:edward.greenberg at jpl.nasa.gov>>
To:        Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>, "Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>" <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>, "sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>" <sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Cc:        "Kazz, Greg J (312B)" <greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:greg.j.kazz at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Date:        11/04/2017 01:36
Subject:        RE: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw:  Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

________________________________

I never had a response to my recommendation.  I made this recommendation for compatibility with AOS, proximity 1 and USLP since these protocols can be used in both directions thus the PVN is not a discriminator.   TM and TC have a 2 bit PVN and they are both ‘00’.

From: Greenberg, Edward (312B)
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 2:24 PM
To: 'Moury Gilles'; Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>; sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

The SCID identifies the Spacecraft.  The SOURCE/DESTINATION FLAG identifies the sending side or the receiving side.  Thus by including the SOURCE/DESTINATION FLAG into the GVCID/GMAPID you determine the sending side GVCID verses the receiving side GVCID.  By simply modifying the term GVCID to GVCIDS for the sending side and GVCIDR for the receiving side you separate the VCs by directionality which is exactly what you want.

From: SLS-SEA-DLS [mailto:sls-sea-dls-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Moury Gilles
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 2:00 AM
To: Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>; sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Dear all,

My response to David’s questions would be :

Q1 : values 0 and 65535 are reserved (for master keys I understand). Text should be modified.

Q2 : EP baseline mode relies on SDLS baseline mode. SDLS baseline mode uses AES-GCM. In that case, the SN is replaced by the IV which is 96 bits. Therefore, the Set ARC procedure of the EP baseline mode is actually setting the IV. I would recommend adding this clarification in the EP baseline mode specification and changing the length of the “New anti-replay counter value” field from 64 to 96 bits for consistency with SDLS baseline mode.

Q3 : My proposal would be the following:
•        For the EP baseline mode, a format is specified for the GVCID/GMAPID field of the  Start SA PDU with the following sub-fields:
o   TFVN (4 bits)
o   SCID (16 bits)
o   VCID (6 bits)
o   MAPID (6bits)
•        Since we have specified TFVN sub-field length as 4 bits, we have 2 spare bits there. We could use one of them to distinguish TC from TM : ‘000’ would code for TC TFVN and ‘100’ would code for TM TFVN, while ‘001’ would code for AOS and ‘010’ for Prox-1 (which is not covered by SDLS by the way).

Best regards,
Gilles

Gilles MOURY
CNES Toulouse
De : SLS-SEA-DLS [mailto:sls-sea-dls-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] De la part de Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>
Envoyé : vendredi 31 mars 2017 08:57
À : sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Objet : [Sls-sea-dls] Fw: Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard

Dear all,

Could ask you to take a look at the questions that David sent a while go...some of them need answers before a red book can be produced.
My take:
Q1 is a typo and will be corrected. --> No further discussion needed
Q2: This should be the case. What do the others think? Do we need to be explicit there?
Q3: This is a critical one and we don't have an answer at the moment. I remember we discussed this in the WG already but I am not sure we came to a conclusion. This needs to be clarified in the standard. Any opinions?

Cheers,
Daniel.

Dr. Daniel Fischer
Head of the Engineering Support Section, OPS-GES
Ground Systems Engineering Department
Directorate of Operations

ESA - ESOC
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5, D-64392 Darmstadt, Germany

Tel. +49 6151 90 2718 |  E-mail: Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>
----- Forwarded by Daniel Fischer/esoc/ESA on 31/03/2017 08:51 -----

From:        David.Koisser at esa.int<mailto:David.Koisser at esa.int>
To:        sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc:        "John P. Lucas" <John.P.Lucas at ivv.nasa.gov<mailto:John.P.Lucas at ivv.nasa.gov>>
Date:        01/03/2017 11:04
Subject:        [Sls-sea-dls] Question regarding the SDLS EP Standard
Sent by:        "SLS-SEA-DLS" <sls-sea-dls-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-sea-dls-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>>

________________________________

Dear SDLS WG members,

John and I have completed setting up the interoperability testing environment and now we are doing a few finishing touches. Whilst doing this a few questions arose regarding the SDLS EP standard:

1. In Section E4.2.2 (in the baseline mode description of Key Activation) and the following key procedures, it defines the Key ID fields to have a length of 16 bits. And then states:
"Values 0-65535 shall not be used to reference session keys."
Which would be all possible Key IDs and leave none for any session keys. Can you clarify?

2. While we are fairly sure it is implied: Does the M&C procedure Set ARC set the IV instead of the SN parameter in the regarding cases (e.g. AES-GCM)?

3. The standard is not addressing how to distinguish if a GVCID is regarding the TM or TC channels for the Start SA procedure. An example to clarify:

A mission wants a different SA assigned on VC 0 for the uplink (e.g. authentication only) than the VC 0 for the downlink (e.g. authenticated encryption). To be able to set this with the Start SA procedure, it needs a way to distinguish between the TC and TM channel mapping to SPIs. As the GVCID is defined as:
GVCID = TFVN + SCID + VCID
And the 2 bits long TFVN may have the following values: 01 -> AOS; 10 -> Proximity-1; 00 -> TM- *or* TC-SDLP
The GVCID alone is not enough to distinguish between TC and TM and we are currently using a custom data structure for unambiguously identifying the channels in the Start SA procedure.

Best Regards,
David Koisser
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