[Sls-rfm] Fw: Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final review
Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int
Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int
Mon Jan 17 08:35:55 UTC 2022
Info
----- Forwarded by Enrico Vassallo/esoc/ESA on 17/01/22 09:35 -----
From: "Kevin K Gifford" <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
To: "Issler Jean-Luc" <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>,
"Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>,
"sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org" <sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: "Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int"
<Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL
Employee]" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov"
<wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>, "shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov"
<shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>, "victor.j.sank at nasa.gov"
<victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>, "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600"
<bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, "jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov"
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>,
CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, "Shames, Peter M (US
312B)" <peter.m.shames@
Date: 21/12/21 23:26
Subject: Re: [Sls-rfm] Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG
Request for final review
[Enrico: Please post on sls-rfm mailing list, thanks]
Dear Enrico, Dear Jean-Luc -
Thank you for your time and effort to provide SFCG and SLS-RFM review
inputs to the SOIS-WIR CCSDS-883 document.
The updated document is attached, and the changes incorporated into the
document are easily reviewable/verifiable via MSWord Track Changes.
-- All inputs, except the requested change below, from Enrico and Jean-Luc
have been incorporated into the document verbatim, with some modifications
solely for English grammar concerns.
================================
The SOIS-WIR WG rejects the RID to add the below highlighted sentence in
Paragraph-1 of Section 3.2.1 GENERAL: REQUIREMENTS
3.2.1 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS
This Recommended Standard does not provide any normative guidance in the
frequency values of the permitted bands (in addition to the applicable
SFCG PNT band to protect: 2483.5–2500 MHz) by the space systems using the
wireless terrestrial standards covered in this book. Consequently, the
following constraints on the frequency selection must be followed:
The rationale of the SOIS-WIR WG is that there is no need, and it is
confusing to make this explicit single phrase statement when the rest of
the document references SFCG 32-2R3 which has this explicit restriction.
Tables 3-1, 3-2 and 3-3 in the CCSDS-883 document have this constraint as
well.
================================
@Enrico, @Jean-Luc: Please review the attached document (easy to do with
Track Changes) and let me know if there are any remaining concerns. Please
have your comments to me by 10 January 2022 (sooner would be great ;-).
If any questions, or if any discussion is needed, please let me know at
your earliest convenience.
Sincere thanks again for your time to review!
Kevin
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 9:07 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>; Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int
<Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>; sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org
<sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>;
Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee] <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>;
wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov <wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>;
shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov <shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>;
victor.j.sank at nasa.gov <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>; Edwards, Bernard L.
(GSFC-5600 <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>; jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov
<jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>; Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>;
CCSDS Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B)
<peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>; Moury Gilles <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>
Subject: RE: [Sls-rfm] Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for
final review
Dear Kevin, dear all,
To answer to your question bellow, my comments previously sent are (1) the
official consensus CNES position, and (3) my comments as a member of
SLS-RFM.
Please, find also attached here a combined version, including the comments
made so far by RFM members and the RFM chairman having in mind SFCG
concerns as SFCG chairman. The updates proposed in this combined version
are supported by each of the RFM members having issued comments. Please
consider from now this combined version instead of the previous separate
versions.
Very best regards
Jean-Luc
De : Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Envoyé : mardi 14 décembre 2021 17:39
À : Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>; Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int;
sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org
Cc : Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int; Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL
Employee] <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>; wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov;
shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov; victor.j.sank at nasa.gov; Edwards, Bernard L.
(GSFC-5600 <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>; jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov; Ray
Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; CCSDS Secretariat
<thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B)
<peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>; Kevin K Gifford
<kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Objet : Re: [Sls-rfm] Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for
final review
Dear Jean-Luc -
Thank you for your time to comment and provide inputs.
Please allow me to pose a clarification question: My understanding is that
you are providing comments/inputs as a member of SLS-RFM, correct? The
reason I am inquiring is that in your comments below you are summarizing
as "CNES comments" and I want to understand if your statement is:
(1) the official consensus CNES position, or,
(2) the official SLS-RFM position, or
(3) your assessment as a member of SLS-RFM?
I assume your statements are as a member of the SLS-RFM WG, please correct
me if I am mistaken...
Thanks.
Kevin
From: Issler Jean-Luc <Jean-Luc.Issler at cnes.fr>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:56 AM
To: Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>;
sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org <sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>; Kevin K Gifford <
kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Cc: Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>;
Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee] <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>;
wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov <wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>;
shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov <shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>;
victor.j.sank at nasa.gov <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>; Edwards, Bernard L.
(GSFC-5600 <bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>; jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov <
jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>; Ray Wagner <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; CCSDS
Secretariat <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>; Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <
peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: [Sls-rfm] Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for
final review
Dear all,
Please find here my comments as a member of RFM WG:
First Major comments:
- The informative and normative materials of 883 shall be less
vague vis a vis protection of Radio Astronomy in the Shielded Zone of the
Moon, in order the implementer to have the proper level of essential
information and requirements without needing to read a pile of documents,
without not be required to protect one band having an influence on RA
protection, and without having to wait at least years an eventual possible
futur CCSDS complementary and relevant RFM document. CCSDS rules actually
allows this proper level to be part of 883 thanks to a few lines only*.
- The informative and normative materials of 883 shall be less
ambiguous on standardising, when using an current SFCG band for a wireless
link, the need to not have wireless channels spectrally outside (even
partly) the said SFCG wireless band. CCSDS rules actually allows to avoid
such an ambiguity in a CCSDS standard. If not, 883 would put in danger
adjacent SFCG lunar bands to be used for links different than wireless,
and this would be not good*.
* Similar comments (detailed in track changes in the attached version)
were already taken into account by the Wireless WG which submited by
consensus a “CESG-approuval” version of 883 to CESG. Then, 4 PIDS broke
this consensus, and CNES + DLR members of the Wireless WG informed the
Wireless WG members about the consensus having been broken (and it is
still the case up till now). The declared disposition of a significant
number of CNES RIDS in the frame of 883 agency review is actually no more
valid up till now. The new comments made in the attached version however
propose a new compromise, without removing the fundamental goals related
to RA in the SZM and the protection of SFCG non-wireless bands. It was
said about this 883 version submitted to RFM that it has to not adress
some frequency issues (rather “forward work to the implementing engineer”
), but “MHz” appear 66 times (before CNES present comments) and “GHz” 82
times (before CNES present comments) !! CNES think that these 148
references to frequencies in the submited version are relevant in 883, as
well as the very few aditional ones proposed by CNES to be re-introduced
to recover the agreed consensus. Transfering most of these references into
a future RFM document to be refered now in 883 as a future document, and
to be published (eventually with the required solved ambiguities) in at
least some years, would put more in danger Radio Astronomy in the SZM as
well as some SFCG non-wireless bands. This would be not appropriate for
CNES. CNES proposes the ambiguities to be removed now, as agreed by the
Wireless WG which submited to CESG a 883 standard version without such
ambiguities.
Other comments:
- The title of the 883 standard could be improved by coping more
with the content of the standard: Wifi and 3GPP (while there are also
optical and UWB wireless links which could be standardized later on by
CCSDS). Without puting “Wifi and 3GPP” (or Wifi and 3GPP LTE) in the
title, it would be as if (for instance) the DVB-S2 CCSDS space telemetry
standard would be named only “VCM” in its title !
- The relative velocity (Doppler) between the transmitter and
the receiver is mentioned to be taken into account; but, the relative
acceleration (Doppler slope) is not mentioned to be also taken into
account, as it shall be.
Have a nice day; Very best regards
Jean-Luc
De : SLS-RFM <sls-rfm-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> De la part de
Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int
Envoyé : lundi 6 décembre 2021 08:51
À : sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org
Objet : [Sls-rfm] Fw: [EXTERNAL] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
For you consideration when submitting comments by Dec. 15.
Regards, Enrico
----- Forwarded by Enrico Vassallo/esoc/ESA on 06/12/21 08:50 -----
From: "Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811)" <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>
To: "Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670)" <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>, "Kevin K
Gifford" <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>, "Shames, Peter M (JPL-312B)[JPL
Employee]" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: "Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>,
"Rodriguez, Shannon (GSFC-5670)" <shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>, "Lee,
Wing-tsz (GSFC-5670)" <wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>, "Lee, Dennis K
(JPL-332G)[JPL Employee]" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Sank, Victor J.
(GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS INC]" <
victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>, "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <
bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5800)" <
jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811)" <
raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>
Date: 03/12/21 23:07
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request
for final review
Hi, all. After coordinating with GSFC management today, SOIS-WIR agrees
to add the following statement to Sec. 1.3 Applicability of the copy of
the document under review by SLS:
NOTE: this book covers interoperability recommendations for Wi-Fi and
3GPP architectures. It does not address recommendations specific to
deployments in unique mission environments. It is forward work for the
implementing engineer to address, on a case-by-case basis, issues such as
band selection, antenna selection, antenna placement, antenna elevation,
cell site planning, network loading, mission criticality, backhaul, etc.
to provide desired coverage and service for a specific mission.
This should disposition outstanding concerns and allow SLS to proceed with
a review scoped to the “redlines” Kevin mentions below. Kevin can follow
up with a new document incorporating the above text, but the previous copy
still serves to review the “redline” changes using change tracking as
Kevin suggests below.
Thanks to all involved for identifying and resolving this issue today.
Ray
From: Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670) <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>
Sent: Friday, December 3, 2021 9:59 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>; Shames, Peter M
(JPL-312B)[JPL Employee] <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int; Rodriguez, Shannon (GSFC-5670) <
shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Wing-tsz (GSFC-5670) <
wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee] <
dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>; Sank, Victor J. (GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS
AND APPLICATIONS INC] <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>; Wagner, Raymond S.
(JSC-EV811) <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600) <
bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Kevin,
One more thing, I thought from our SIG WG that you and Johnathan Wilmott
agreed to notify of the first review. I never got anything from either of
you on that.
Regards,
Wai Fong, Ph.D.
Communications Engineer
Flight Microwave and Telecommunications Systems Branch
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
From: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Date: Friday, December 3, 2021 at 10:48 AM
To: "Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670)" <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>, "Shames, Peter M
(JPL-312B)[JPL Employee]" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Enrico Vassallo <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>, Shannon Rodriguez-sanabria
<shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>, WING-TSZ LEE <wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>,
"Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee]" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>,
Victor Sank <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>, "Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811)" <
raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>, "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <
bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>, Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Wai -
Thank you for the reply, as I stated previously, the document has already
gone through Agency Review-01 and CESG review so this is not an entire
document review request.
Kevin
From: Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670) <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>
Sent: Friday, December 3, 2021 8:41 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>; Shames, Peter M
(JPL-312B)[JPL Employee] <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>; Rodriguez, Shannon
(GSFC-5670) <shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Wing-tsz (GSFC-5670) <
wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee] <
dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>; Sank, Victor J. (GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS
AND APPLICATIONS INC] <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>; Wagner, Raymond S.
(JSC-EV811) <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>; Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600) <
bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Kevin,
I’m only checking emails and the document’s over 100 pages long. 30
minutes would not be enough to even make sure the references were right.
Also, because of our center’s continuing problems with announcements for
documents to be reviewed, we were never notified that that the first
review ever took place. So, if you want a thorough review from me, you
have to give me the opportunity to do it.
Regards,
Wai Fong, Ph.D.
Communications Engineer
Flight Microwave and Telecommunications Systems Branch
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
From: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Date: Friday, December 3, 2021 at 10:36 AM
To: "Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670)" <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>, "Shames, Peter M
(JPL-312B)[JPL Employee]" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Enrico Vassallo <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>, Shannon Rodriguez-sanabria
<shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>, WING-TSZ LEE <wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>,
"Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee]" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>,
Victor Sank <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>, Kevin K Gifford <
kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>, "Wagner, Raymond S. (JSC-EV811)" <
raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>, "Edwards, Bernard L. (GSFC-5600)" <
bernard.l.edwards at nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Hi Wai -
I would like to get the document published ASAP. The document has
already gone through Agency Review-01 and CESG review so this is not an
entire document review request.
Can you take 30 minutes and review the updates please?
Thanks.
Kevin
From: Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670) <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>
Sent: Friday, December 3, 2021 8:29 AM
To: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>; Shames, Peter M
(JPL-312B)[JPL Employee] <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>; Rodriguez, Shannon
(GSFC-5670) <shannon.rodriguez-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Wing-tsz (GSFC-5670) <
wing-tsz.lee-1 at nasa.gov>; Lee, Dennis K (JPL-332G)[JPL Employee] <
dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>; Sank, Victor J. (GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS
AND APPLICATIONS INC] <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Kevin, Peter;
I’m on vacation this month but I would like to give this a proper review.
Can you delay the review deadline until mid or late January?
Regards,
Wai Fong, Ph.D.
Communications Engineer
Flight Microwave and Telecommunications Systems Branch
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
From: SLS-RFM <sls-rfm-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Enrico
Vassallo <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>
Date: Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: "sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org" <sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sls-rfm] Fw: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final
review
Resent-From: "Content-filter at st.scanss.org" <virusalert at scanss.org>
Resent-To: <sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>
Resent-Date: Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 2:06 PM
Since Kevin is not a member of RFM WG, his emails are not forwarded by the
RFM mailing list server.
Please review the attached document and let me have your comments by Dec
15 latest.
Regards, Enrico
----- Forwarded by Enrico Vassallo/esoc/ESA on 02/12/21 17:25 -----
From: "Kevin K Gifford" <kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
To: "Jonathan Wilmot" <jonathan.j.wilmot at nasa.gov>, "
Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int" <Ignacio.Aguilar.Sanchez at esa.int>, "
dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov" <dennis.k.lee at jpl.nasa.gov>, "
Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int" <Enrico.Vassallo at esa.int>, "
sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org" <sls-rfm at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: "Shames, Peter M (US 312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Ray
Wagner" <raymond.s.wagner at nasa.gov>, "CCSDS Secretariat" <
thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, "Kevin K Gifford" <
kevin.gifford at colorado.edu>
Date: 02/12/21 16:51
Subject: CCSDS-883-R-0 CESG Request for final review
Dear Jonathan, Ignacio, Dennis, Enrico, SLS-RFM -
I have worked with Dr. Peter Shames to update CCSDS-883-0-R-0 to ensure
SLS concerns are properly addressed per the CESG.
The attached CCSDS-883-0-R-0 document is a result of Peter and I's efforts
to assuage any remaining concerns.
I am requesting that SLS reviews the updates to the document for consensus
purposes.
-- All updates are tracked via "Track Changes"
-- A suggestion is to simply click "Next Change" to see the updates
-- The primary updates (sans editorial nits) are on pages 1-1, 1-2, 2-1,
2-5, 3-1 and 3-2
@Jonathan: Please review and provide your acceptance or any remaining
concerns at your earliest convenience.
@Igancio: Can you and SLS-RFM please review and provide your acceptance or
any remaining concerns at your earliest convenience.
I believe that the review will take minimal time as Peter and I worked to
ensure the updates would resolve SLS concerns expressed to the CESG.
Please let me know if any questions.
Thanks to all!
Kevin
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this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies
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personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA
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This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or
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