[SLS-CC] [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Andrea Modenini
Andrea.Modenini at esa.int
Mon Jan 29 12:18:04 UTC 2024
Hi Wai,
>From DLR was reported that there are LEO missions which do not use randomizer for Convolutional encoded Frames, and work good.
For ESA instead, considering that the standard in any case highly recommends to have Randomization, it was indifferent to make it a hard requirement or soft as it is now.
If there are objection, as per CCSDS, we can obviously re-discuss for finding consensus
Andrea
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: Fong, Wai H. (GSFC-5670) <wai.h.fong at nasa.gov>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:00 PM
To: Andrea Modenini <Andrea.Modenini at esa.int>; sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org; Andrews, Kenneth S (JPL-332B)[JPL Employee] <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Andrea,
What was the rationale for keeping the randomizer optional?
Wai Fong, Ph.D.
Communications Engineer
Flight Microwave and Telecommunications Systems Branch
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Code 567
Greenbelt, MD 20771
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 6:53 AM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>; Andrews, Kenneth S (JPL-332B)[JPL Employee] <kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
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Dear all,
With reference to the AI below, I received formal feedback from ESA and DLR, that I can summarize as follow:
* preference is to keep the Randomizer as optional (when in absence of TF slicing) instead of making it mandatory for future missions as Victor and I proposed
* There are no objections in adding a note about the maximum TF lengths
* Jorge/ESA sent few additional notes about the nomenclature that I provide in attachment
In light of this, if there are no additional comments, I believe we can consider definitely closed AI_23_09 and AI_23_10, and Ken and Jorge can proceed in providing an update of the CCSDS 131.0-B for the TF slicing (AI_23_11)
The target would be to have a consolidated draft, that we can start discussing with OPT for harmonization, and then in Spring 2024 to see if there are the premises for the Agency Review (challenging, but let's try).
@Andrews, Kenneth S (US 332B)<mailto:kenneth.s.andrews at jpl.nasa.gov>, since we were late with the AIs serving as input to yours, do you think is feasible to provide an update draft by begin of March?
Andrea
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2024 11:40 AM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Dear C&S WG,
Concerning status of AIs
* Kind reminder about the review of the C&S 131.0-B nomenclature and possibility of making Randomizer mandatory (see email below for details, and attachment starting with SLS-CS). Comments (if any) are due by January 26th.
* For AI_23-12 (recorded as AI_23-11 under RFM WG MoM), I was requested to provide a proposal for the Table of Contents (ToC) for a possible Green Book about VCM: with some delay the AI is completed. Member agencies (in particular NASA GSFC, ESA ESTEC, and CNES) please check the proposed ToC, in order to assess if you could contribute and the WG can then go forward with a project next Spring meeting.
Regards
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 8:09 PM
To: Sank, Victor J. (GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS INC] <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov<mailto:victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>>; sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Dear all,
First of all, my wishes for the new year.
@Victor, sorry for the delay, I started my leave on the same day that this email was received.
However, I managed to review your comments right away, and looks good with me.
I let the working group review them as well (file attached again for convenience), and come with additional comments (if any) by January 26th, as planned.
As reminder, I asked in my past email to the WG about:
1. Letting me know if there is any objections/doubts about the terminology proposal (or if you spot any additional discrepancy).
2. Letting me know your preference (possibly per Agency or Agency's site) about
* making randomization mandatory (with the exception of legacy systems w/o slicing), OR
* keeping it as optional when no slicing is adopted, mandatory otherwise (as it is right now);
1. Letting me know if there is any objection in adding a Note that 2k and 65k TF lengths are due to the FHP.
As usual, in case of no reaction from a specific agency by January 26th, I will intend it as abstained or no objections.
Andrea
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: Sank, Victor J. (GSFC-567.0)[SCIENCE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS INC] <victor.j.sank at nasa.gov<mailto:victor.j.sank at nasa.gov>>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2023 6:10 AM
To: Andrea Modenini <Andrea.Modenini at esa.int<mailto:Andrea.Modenini at esa.int>>; sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Andrea, et al,
Now you got ahead of me. With meetings canceled for the holidays, I finally have time to look at this.
I made a few comments, inserted in the attached. Listing here to make it easier to find.
Table of Contents needs to be up dated to include the new section 3.
Section
1.6.1.3 two comments
3.1,
3.2.6,
4.2.2,
9.1.1,
9.1.2,
10.4.1,
11.5,
12.8,
Thanks,
Victor
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2023 2:50 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: [SLS-CC] C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
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Dear WG,
Here an update for AI_23_09 and AI_23_10 (see table in email below).
AI_23_10 - symbol terminology. With the help of Victor, I reviewed the blue book and my proposal is to remove 'channel symbol' in favour of 'coded symbol',
Additionally, I spotted possible discrepancies about CADU, SMTF, codeblock terminology and their usage (some of them already noticed by NASA GSFC colleagues during Fall 2023), that I tried to fix.
For AI_23_09, I did not receive further comments beyond those of Goddard's folks in Fall 2023, so I provide just my comments, and I propose the AI for closure.
However, while reviewing 131.0-B, I thought about two additional changes, that I wish to discuss:
1. Given the new TF slicer, and recent new randomizer, should we maybe consider to make randomization mandatory (except for legacy system without TF slicing)?
* Notice that from practical perspective nothing changes wr.t.. current approach (backward compatibility of bypassing randomization is still guaranteed) but with the subtle difference that 'new' systems are obliged to use the randomization (and not anymore highly recommended). Such proposal was done already in past by NASA GSFC, and now it could be the chance that we make it finally mandatory while keeping backward compatibility.
1. Should we add a note that Transfer Frame lengths (for Uncoded, and CC, or with slicing) are limited to 2k and 65k octects, because of the FHP?
--> I noticed that the rationale of such limitation is not given in CCSDS. So it could be worth to add a Note about it (had a preliminary check with Greg and he is fine that we add it in our book)
For all points, you can find in attachment the word file, so that you can check more in details my proposals.
As way forward, before Ken/Jorge go ahead in their AI_23_11 to update the 131.0-B accordingly, I poll the WG about:
1. Letting me know if there is any objections/doubts about the terminology proposal (or if you spot any additional discrepancy).
2. Letting me know your preference (possibly per Agency or Agency's site) about
* making randomization mandatory (with the exception of legacy systems w/o slicing), OR
* keeping it as optional when no slicing is adopted, mandatory otherwise (as it is right now);
1. Letting me know if there is any objection in adding a Note that 2k and 65k TF lengths are due to the FHP.
For giving everybody enough time, taking into account possible winter breaks, I propose as deadline January 26th.
In case of objections/doubts, feel free to raise the interest in having a dedicated WG Telco for better discussing the points above
Regards
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: Andrea Modenini
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 12:47 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: C&S - AI status for 131.0-B update
Hi all,
Kind reminder (also for myself) for the AIs below:
[cid:image001.png at 01DA52B5.96907A20]
For AI_23_09, if no more comments are expected, I will close the AI (let me know otherwise).
For AI_23_10, I inform that I am late, apologies for that. I will do my best to complete within December
Regards,
Andrea
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: Andrea Modenini
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2023 1:24 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: C&S draft MoM
Hi all,
Please find in attachment the C&S MoM, final version.
I received no comments, so I simply updated the list of AIs in annex stemming from joints (see RFM MoM), and updated the status of the VCM green book potential project.
In case you should have residual comments, just give a holler, otherwise I will upload them in CWE
Regards
PS: thanks again Dennis for covering joint meetings
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 5:04 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [SLS-CC] C&S draft MoM
Dear C&S WG,
Thanks again for your availability in hosting the C&S meeting remotely.
You can find enclosed the draft MoM.
Notice that I have already provided in yellow some placeholders that needs to be confirmed/phrased after physical meetings in The Hague.
If you can review the MoM and let me know if you have comments no later than November 20th COB.
Regards
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: Andrea Modenini
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 2:37 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: inputs for Fall 2023 meetings now available
Obviously I can't write an email without remarking my clumsiness: I meant inputs 14 and 15
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 2:34 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [SLS-CC] inputs for Fall 2023 meetings now available
I confirm now that all inputs are in CWE, ready to be downloaded.
Notice that SLS-CS_23-13 and SLS-CS_23-15 were merged into a single one, since referring to a single book.
Thanks all for providing the inputs timely, especially considering the busy period.
See you on October 30th, remotely.
Andrea
PS: reminder that we plan to have the full C&S meeting on October 30th, while October 31st is just for back-up in case we run late.
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
From: SLS-CC <sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Andrea Modenini via SLS-CC
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 1:41 PM
To: sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sls-cc at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: [SLS-CC] inputs for Fall 2023 meetings now available
Dear all,
By means of this email please be informed that inputs for Fall 2023 meetings are available on https://tinyurl.com/CCSDS2023Fall
(don't forget to login in CWE in the upper-right corner, otherwise you will see an empty folder)
There is still one input missing, but deadline is COB, so it is expected by tomorrow,
Regards
Andrea
Ph.D. Andrea Modenini
TT&C Communications Systems Engineer
TT&C and PDT Systems & Techniques Section (TEC-EST)
RF Systems Division
European Space Agency, ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, PO Box 299
NL-2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands
andrea.modenini at esa.int<mailto:andrea.modenini at esa.int> | www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>
T +31 6 484 56 527
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