[Sis-dtn] DTN Reference Scenarios

Fri Jun 7 13:00:44 UTC 2024

Yeah if we want to make them publicly available soon yes we have to think of something smart...the process of green or yellow book publication is pretty much the same I'd say. But if we want to put them in the existing green book, the process should likely take longer as we have to review/revise the whole book. But as you say, let's finalise first the scenarios and then we'll have some brilliant idea on how to publish them...

Tomaso

Von: Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int>
Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Juni 2024 13:55
An: de Cola, Tomaso <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>
Cc: sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org; Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu
Betreff: RE: DTN Reference Scenarios

Hi Tomaso,

I have been thinking yellow as the scenarios might support interoperability testing (and because I would have though that it is quick).

Anyway, I think what is more important is to finalise the scenarios and find a way to make them publicly available.

Regards,
Felix

From: Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de> <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>>
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 11:21 AM
To: Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int<mailto:Felix.Flentge at esa.int>>
Cc: sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org>; Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu<mailto:Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: AW: DTN Reference Scenarios

Hi Felix,

thank your for the answers.
Concerning "the yellow is the new green", I'm honestly not much convinced of that also because we already have a green book dealing with those subjects, so coming up with a new and different book won't help much, as we'll have in any case to update the green book (soon or later). Moreover, according to the CCSDS organization and procedures book:
"Yellow Books may be reports or meeting records, but they are also used for documenting CCSDS internal processes, procedures, and controlling guidelines and for documenting interoperability test plans and reports. Yellow Books shall be used to document the test plans and test reports produced in support of CCSDS Blue Book interoperability testing. Yellow Books may also be used to document CCSDS internal processes, procedures, and controlling guidelines. This document is itself a CCSDS Yellow Book, and it is a controlling document describing CCSDS procedures. Any CCSDS Yellow Book that is normative upon CCSDS itself requires CESG and CMC approval polling."
In this light ,IMHO I don't see yellow book as the place for scenarios discussion/analysis, but I'm in any case open. We can further discuss on this point once the iteration on DTN scenarios can be considered closed or at least consolidated.

Best,

Tomaso

Von: Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int<mailto:Felix.Flentge at esa.int>>
Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Juni 2024 10:13
An: de Cola, Tomaso <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>>
Cc: sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org>; Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu<mailto:Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu>
Betreff: RE: DTN Reference Scenarios

Hi Tomaso,

Please see my replies below.

Regards,
Felix

From: Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de> <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>>
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 9:44 AM
To: Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int<mailto:Felix.Flentge at esa.int>>
Cc: sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org>; Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu<mailto:Edward.Birrane at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: AW: DTN Reference Scenarios

Hi Felix,

thank you for sharing the slides presented yesterday.

Just three comments:

1)      I see no mention of optical communications, while the lunar WG within IOAG was pointing to them too. Any reason for excluding them now from the picture?

FF: At least Moonlight does not include optical trunk link (, yet) and the scenario seems complex enough for the time being.

2)      The SOIS-WIR WG has been working on green and blue books about the communication solutions for in-situ planetary network, possibly resulting in the coexistence of 3GPP/WiFi solutions with DTN-based ones. Is this also captured in the pictures you have put in your slides?

FF: No, we have considered adding more nodes on surfaces  but I think it does not considerably change the scenario (again, seems already complex enough). It would certainly be exciting to consider surface IP networks as well but I would keep this for later.

3)      As to where push information about all (and possibly other) DTN reference scenarios, let's not forget that we have the CCSDS 734.0-G-1 "Rationale, Scenarios, and Requirements for DTN in Space" which is since long (the document was published already in 2010) in our ToDo list for the 5-year review. Probably the material you provided in the slides could be further elaborated and expanded for a new version of that green book. In any case it is probably now time to think how and when to start the 5-year review of that book (I know all our resources are on the blue and orange books, but that green book is really old and must be refreshed)

FF: Yes, I could imagine the scenarios ending up in the green book but I would like to finish the first version asap. Maybe we can have them yellow ('yellow is the new green') first just to have something to reference to.

Just another point somehow correlated to scenarios: during the monthly telco between SIS and IETF DTN WG, it emerged that IETF would like to come up with a concept/white paper about the challenges of space internetworking. Moreover, a first step would be to review and update RFC4838 which now contains some outdated content that should be revised. I add here Ed who can say a few words more on this point.

FF: Indeed, I think that these scenarios are also relevant in this context as they may help to add some more realism to the general discussions. However, we should stress that the intention is more short-term and still very agency-centric so this should not limit work on scalable solutions for large networks.

Regards,

Tomaso

Von: SIS-DTN <sis-dtn-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-dtn-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> Im Auftrag von Felix Flentge via SIS-DTN
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Juni 2024 17:57
An: Dr. Keith L Scott via SIS-DTN <sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:sis-dtn at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Betreff: [Sis-dtn] DTN Reference Scenarios

Dear All,

I have uploaded today's presentation on DTN Reference Scenarios to CWE:

https://cwe.ccsds.org/sis/docs/SIS-DTN/Other%20Documents/DTN%20Reference%20Scenario/CCSDS%20DTN%20Scenarios.pptx?d=wf3b24c8d83344cf998bc7846fe279269

Please let us know if you have any feedback (in particular, on the overall topologies - we need to fix them now for the next steps).

Regards,
Felix

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