[MOIMS-NAV-EXEC] FW: Proposed SC13 Agreement

Wed Apr 26 13:53:02 UTC 2017

FYI, per our discussions today.

Here was my response to the SC14 folks.

Thanks,

Dan

Daniel L. Oltrogge
SDC Program Manager & Senior Research Astrodynamicist
Center for Space Standards and Innovation
Analytical Graphics Incorporated
Voice: 719-482-4552; E-mail: oltrogge at agi.com

From: Oltrogge, Daniel
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 7:42 AM
To: 'Drogoul, Severin' <severin.drogoul at airbus.com>; John Davey <j.r.davey at btopenworld.com>; Nick Tongson <NickT at aiaa.org>; Anton Spivak - RU <tsniimash at bk.ru>; Camelia Negrila - RO <camelia.negrila at asro.ro>; Carlos Oliveira Lino - BR <lino at lit.inpe.br>; Eduardo Velasquez - BR <andres.serrano at lit.inpe.br>; Fred Slane - US <freds at spacestandards.org>; Galyna Matus - UA <TK117 at yuzhnoye.com>; Jana Cavojova - SK <jana.cavojova at sutn.gov.sk>; Jong-Hee Lee - KR <leejh at kari.re.kr>; Karim Benmeziane - FR <benmeziane at bnae.asso.fr>; Keiichiro Eishima - JP <keiichiro.eishima at castle.ocn.ne.jp>; Mabel Santella - AR <msantella at iram.org.ar>; Marinao Semorile - AR <msemorile at iram.org.ar>; Olexiy Shypko - UA <office at dgcsms.dp.ua>; Paolo Santato - IT <paolo.santato at uni.com>; Paul Gill - SC14 Chair <paul.gill at nasa.gov>; Pietro Giordano - IT <pietro.giordano at thalesaleniaspace.com>; Pyowon Kee - KR <standard at kats.go.kr>; Rahul Kumar - IN <ird at bis.org.in>; Stephan Bonk <stephan.bonk at dlr.de>; Sven Radhe - SE <sven.radhe at sis.se>; Teresa Idzikowska - PL <teridzi at ilot.edu.pl>; Tong Xin - CN <std at ht708.com.cn>; Tuomas Tikka - FI <tuomas.tikka at aalto.fi>; Victor Chaporgin - RU <abc at roscosmos.ru>; Virve Ukkonen - FI <virve.ukkonen at sfs.fi>; Wei Yonggang - CN <wygww567 at sina.com>; Yoichiro Uchida - JP <yoichiro.uchida at sjac.or.jp>
Cc: Andre Lacroix - WG 3 (andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com) <andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com>; Gilles Moury <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>; Hedley Stokes <hedley_stokes at msn.com>; Jim Haughton -WG 2 <jhaughton at krctesting.com>; Kent Tobiska <ktobiska at spacenvironment.net>; Mikhail Panasyuk - WG 4 <panasyuk at sinp.msu.ru>; Naoko Baba - WG 6 <baba.naoko at jaxa.jp>; Eduardo W. Bergamini <e.w.bergamini at uol.com.br>; Afarin, James (HQ-DS00) (james.afarin at nasa.gov) <james.afarin at nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Proposed SC13 Agreement

Severin –

You may not have been aware, but there is actually considerable overlap in several important areas of (1) operations data exchange and (2) operations scheduling (two left-hand  columns of the attached document).

As an example (the Orbit Data Message), SC14/WG3 has a joint standard with SC13/NavWG (both of which I’m a member in), and there are other standards which directly overlap our assigned roles.

The subject of terms harmonization is a critical one, in that we are currently (in both SC13 and SC14) being forced to repeatedly define terms inside each standard, which naturally introduces inconsistencies between various standards as developers fail to ensure consistency with other standards.

In my opinion, an agile terms and information source such as the SANA registry is where both SC13 and SC14 need to head, because the standards development process is to slow/unwieldy to keep up with the definition of terms, web sources/links, etc.

Thanks,

Dan

Daniel L. Oltrogge
SDC Program Manager & Senior Research Astrodynamicist
Center for Space Standards and Innovation
Analytical Graphics Incorporated
Voice: 719-482-4552; E-mail: oltrogge at agi.com<mailto:oltrogge at agi.com>

From: Drogoul, Severin [mailto:severin.drogoul at airbus.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 3:59 AM
To: John Davey <j.r.davey at btopenworld.com<mailto:j.r.davey at btopenworld.com>>; Nick Tongson <NickT at aiaa.org<mailto:NickT at aiaa.org>>; Anton Spivak - RU <tsniimash at bk.ru<mailto:tsniimash at bk.ru>>; Camelia Negrila - RO <camelia.negrila at asro.ro<mailto:camelia.negrila at asro.ro>>; Carlos Oliveira Lino - BR <lino at lit.inpe.br<mailto:lino at lit.inpe.br>>; Eduardo Velasquez - BR <andres.serrano at lit.inpe.br<mailto:andres.serrano at lit.inpe.br>>; Fred Slane - US <freds at spacestandards.org<mailto:freds at spacestandards.org>>; Galyna Matus - UA <TK117 at yuzhnoye.com<mailto:TK117 at yuzhnoye.com>>; Jana Cavojova - SK <jana.cavojova at sutn.gov.sk<mailto:jana.cavojova at sutn.gov.sk>>; Jong-Hee Lee - KR <leejh at kari.re.kr<mailto:leejh at kari.re.kr>>; Karim Benmeziane - FR <benmeziane at bnae.asso.fr<mailto:benmeziane at bnae.asso.fr>>; Keiichiro Eishima - JP <keiichiro.eishima at castle.ocn.ne.jp<mailto:keiichiro.eishima at castle.ocn.ne.jp>>; Mabel Santella - AR <msantella at iram.org.ar<mailto:msantella at iram.org.ar>>; Marinao Semorile - AR <msemorile at iram.org.ar<mailto:msemorile at iram.org.ar>>; Olexiy Shypko - UA <office at dgcsms.dp.ua<mailto:office at dgcsms.dp.ua>>; Paolo Santato - IT <paolo.santato at uni.com<mailto:paolo.santato at uni.com>>; Paul Gill - SC14 Chair <paul.gill at nasa.gov<mailto:paul.gill at nasa.gov>>; Pietro Giordano - IT <pietro.giordano at thalesaleniaspace.com<mailto:pietro.giordano at thalesaleniaspace.com>>; Pyowon Kee - KR <standard at kats.go.kr<mailto:standard at kats.go.kr>>; Rahul Kumar - IN <ird at bis.org.in<mailto:ird at bis.org.in>>; Stephan Bonk <stephan.bonk at dlr.de<mailto:stephan.bonk at dlr.de>>; Sven Radhe - SE <sven.radhe at sis.se<mailto:sven.radhe at sis.se>>; Teresa Idzikowska - PL <teridzi at ilot.edu.pl<mailto:teridzi at ilot.edu.pl>>; Tong Xin - CN <std at ht708.com.cn<mailto:std at ht708.com.cn>>; Tuomas Tikka - FI <tuomas.tikka at aalto.fi<mailto:tuomas.tikka at aalto.fi>>; Victor Chaporgin - RU <abc at roscosmos.ru<mailto:abc at roscosmos.ru>>; Virve Ukkonen - FI <virve.ukkonen at sfs.fi<mailto:virve.ukkonen at sfs.fi>>; Wei Yonggang - CN <wygww567 at sina.com<mailto:wygww567 at sina.com>>; Yoichiro Uchida - JP <yoichiro.uchida at sjac.or.jp<mailto:yoichiro.uchida at sjac.or.jp>>
Cc: Andre Lacroix - WG 3 (andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com<mailto:andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com>) <andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com<mailto:andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com>>; Gilles Moury <Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr<mailto:Gilles.Moury at cnes.fr>>; Hedley Stokes <hedley_stokes at msn.com<mailto:hedley_stokes at msn.com>>; Jim Haughton -WG 2 <jhaughton at krctesting.com<mailto:jhaughton at krctesting.com>>; Kent Tobiska <ktobiska at spacenvironment.net<mailto:ktobiska at spacenvironment.net>>; Mikhail Panasyuk - WG 4 <panasyuk at sinp.msu.ru<mailto:panasyuk at sinp.msu.ru>>; Naoko Baba - WG 6 <baba.naoko at jaxa.jp<mailto:baba.naoko at jaxa.jp>>; Oltrogge, Daniel <doltrogge at agi.com<mailto:doltrogge at agi.com>>; Eduardo W. Bergamini <e.w.bergamini at uol.com.br<mailto:e.w.bergamini at uol.com.br>>; Afarin, James (HQ-DS00) (james.afarin at nasa.gov<mailto:james.afarin at nasa.gov>) <james.afarin at nasa.gov<mailto:james.afarin at nasa.gov>>
Subject: RE: Proposed SC13 Agreement

Dear all, just to better explain my position also to help a better understanding and only for thoughts :

1.       SC13 and SC14 are already sometimes working together for (very) few items and when needed. To have a common SC13/SC14 architecture sounds to me artificial, as the way the two  SCs have developed their standards is totally different. It is not a common architecture will help as there are in fact few interfaces. In fact it will maybe worth it to better identify those interfaces.

2.       I just remind SC14 has not provided any architecture standards, this could be the sum of WGs architecture standards; but only some WGs like WG5/WG2 have developed such architecture.

3.       Last is since several years I suspect some would like to merge SC13 and SC14, and as said by John Davey this has been rejected several times. So it is time not to reopen the Pandora box.
Cheers, Séverin

Séverin DROGOUL
Airbus Group, Corporate Technical Office - Vice President
12, rue Pasteur - BP 76 - 92152 Suresnes Cedex France
Phone: +33 (0)1 46 97 32 65, Fax: 0033 (0)1 42 24 25 68
Mobile: +33 (0)6 74 88 23 72
Email: severin.drogoul at airbus.com<mailto:severin.drogoul at airbus.com>

From: John Davey [mailto:j.r.davey at btopenworld.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 7:33 PM
To: Drogoul, Severin; Nick Tongson; Anton Spivak - RU; Camelia Negrila - RO; Carlos Oliveira Lino - BR; Eduardo Velasquez - BR; Fred Slane - US; Galyna Matus - UA; Jana Cavojova - SK; Jong-Hee Lee - KR; Karim Benmeziane - FR; Keiichiro Eishima - JP; Mabel Santella - AR; Marinao Semorile - AR; Olexiy Shypko - UA; Paolo Santato - IT; Paul Gill - SC14 Chair; Pietro Giordano - IT; Pyowon Kee - KR; Rahul Kumar - IN; Stephan Bonk; Sven Radhe - SE; Teresa Idzikowska - PL; Tong Xin - CN; Tuomas Tikka - FI; Victor Chaporgin - RU; Virve Ukkonen - FI; Wei Yonggang - CN; Yoichiro Uchida - JP
Cc: Andre Lacroix - WG 3 (andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com<mailto:andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com>); Gilles Moury; Hedley Stokes; Jim Haughton -WG 2; Kent Tobiska; Mikhail Panasyuk - WG 4; Naoko Baba - WG 6; Dan Oltrogge (oltrogge at agi.com<mailto:oltrogge at agi.com>); Eduardo W. Bergamini; Afarin, James (HQ-DS00) (james.afarin at nasa.gov<mailto:james.afarin at nasa.gov>)
Subject: Re: Proposed SC13 Agreement

Dear All

I’m afraid I cannot agree with Séverin's position on this.

SC13 and SC14 are both SCs of ISO/TC20 working on complimentary standards for spacecraft operations.  This means there has to be at least some element of a common, complimentary basis for their standards development.   They may adopt different approaches when developing their standards, but there are areas where they work on joint standards and, with things like the operation of constellations of small satellites becoming more common, they need a common reference architecture with which to represent the systems and sub-systems they are considering.

In an ideal world, I believe that SC13 and SC14 should be combined in some way, but I am aware that this has already been proposed and rejected.  The draft resolution seems to me to be a way of at least keeping the two SCs in step and I would support it.

Best Regards

John Davey
HoD UK

On 21 Apr 2017, at 08:02, Drogoul, Severin <severin.drogoul at airbus.com<mailto:severin.drogoul at airbus.com>> wrote:

Dear all, I hope this email finds you well.
Coming back to the proposal, we have already discussed this topic since a long time, and there is no maturity on that topic, in addition the two SCs are too far from each other, so I do not agree to propose any resolution on this.

Cheers, Séverin HoD of Delegation for France

Séverin DROGOUL
Airbus Group, Corporate Technical Office - Vice President
12, rue Pasteur - BP 76 - 92152 Suresnes Cedex France
Phone: +33 (0)1 46 97 32 65, Fax: 0033 (0)1 42 24 25 68
Mobile: +33 (0)6 74 88 23 72
Email: severin.drogoul at airbus.com<mailto:severin.drogoul at airbus.com>

From: Nick Tongson [mailto:NickT at aiaa.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:06 PM
To: Anton Spivak - RU; Camelia Negrila - RO; Carlos Oliveira Lino - BR; Eduardo Velasquez - BR; Fred Slane - US; Galyna Matus - UA; Jana Cavojova - SK; John Davey - UK; Jong-Hee Lee - KR; Karim Benmeziane - FR; Keiichiro Eishima - JP; Mabel Santella - AR; Marinao Semorile - AR; Olexiy Shypko - UA; Paolo Santato - IT; Paul Gill - SC14 Chair; Pietro Giordano - IT; Pyowon Kee - KR; Rahul Kumar - IN; Drogoul, Severin; Stephan Bonk - DE; Sven Radhe - SE; Teresa Idzikowska - PL; Tong Xin - CN; Tuomas Tikka - FI; Victor Chaporgin - RU; Virve Ukkonen - FI; Wei Yonggang - CN; Yoichiro Uchida - JP
Cc: Andre Lacroix - WG 3 (andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com<mailto:andre.a.lacroix at airbusafran-launchers.com>); Gilles Moury; Hedley Stokes - WG 7; Jim Haughton -WG 2; Keiichiro Eishima - WG 1; Kent Tobiska - WG 4 Dep; Mikhail Panasyuk - WG 4; Naoko Baba - WG 6; Paul Gill - SC14 Chair; Drogoul, Severin; Dan Oltrogge (oltrogge at agi.com<mailto:oltrogge at agi.com>); Eduardo W. Bergamini; Afarin, James (HQ-DS00) (james.afarin at nasa.gov<mailto:james.afarin at nasa.gov>)
Subject: Proposed SC13 Agreement

To The SC14 Heads of Delegation and Working Group Convenors:

In preparation for the Heads of Delegation and Working Group Convenors meeting in Paris in June, below is a draft resolution for SC14 to consider at its plenary on 16 June 2017 regarding common work on reference architecture. This was drafted by Mr. Fred Slane (CCSDS Liaison) and Mr. Peter Shames (CCSDS Systems Engineering Area Director).

•  SC14 and SC13/CCSDS agree there is a common, complimentary basis for standards development. From that basis, they agree to the evolution of a common reference architecture representation. They agree to exchange information on the evolution of architecture elements such as reference architecture documents, where relevant. They agree to the continued collaboration on standards with common interests.

See you in Paris!

Kind regards,

Nick

Nick Tongson
For the Secretariat of ISO/TC 20/SC 14
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics  www.aiaa.org<http://www.aiaa.org/>
12700 Sunrise Valley Drive, Suite 200
Reston, VA 20191-5807
800-639-AIAA (2422)
nickt at aiaa.org<mailto:nickt at aiaa.org> 703.264.7515 (direct)

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