[Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Mon Jan 18 18:37:59 UTC 2021

Well, I thought we were on the same page.  But I just looked at David's new
green book version and the second paragraph of Purpose says:  

The purpose of the set of standards which make up OAIS-IF is to define APIs
and services which go beyond the exchange of data and instead will enable
the exchange of information. The aim is to improve interoperability between
users and archives, and to enable the increased usability of information of
all types across all domains. 

I think that's way too strong without clarifying that it is for
interoperable exchange of information only for the designated community, and
for interoperable exchange of data with a broader set of users (perhaps with
RepInfo that may not be understood outside the DC).  

However, David, in your email yesterday you said you wanted to simplify
OAIS-IF by not addressing the DC.  So in that case, I think you need to
eliminate the discussion of "information" in that paragraph and address only
data.  Because that's the only thing required by OAIS-IF.  It delivers the
data as requested if it is available, and it returns a null if it's not
available.   Discussion of interpretable information is not required.  

The purpose of these documents is to specify the minimum requirements on
OAIS-IF archives.  Adequate RepInfo to qualify as "Information" is not an
OAIS-IF requirement.  

So how about this as the second Purpose paragraph?  

The purpose of the set of standards which make up OAIS-IF is to define APIs
and services which go beyond the exchange of data and instead will enable
the exchange of information. The aim is to improve data interoperability
between users and archives, and to enable the increased usability of
information of for all types of archived data across all domains. 

   -=- Mike

Mike Kearney

Huntsville, Alabama, USA 

From: kearneysolutions at gmail.com <kearneysolutions at gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 9:52 AM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Sounds good to me.  I think we're all on the same page.  

   -=- Mike

Mike Kearney

Huntsville, Alabama, USA 

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of garrett at his.com
<mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 2:39 AM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Hi Mike,

I have sent a separate response to the David's message today before I worked
my way to your response.

I agree that the MOIMS DAI group was discussing issues regarding whether
OAIS-IF interfaces always required information exchanges vs. data exchanges.

My preference is that individual exchanges could transfer only data.  That
data could become information by previously or subsequently having
representation information.

As for the DC, RepInfo and PDI Information that logically originates in the
AIP is by definition directed at the DC.  They may or may not be enough info
to support the needs of non-DC users.

In addition, archives may hold additional RepInfo and various other
data/information related to the AIPs or the archives operations (Packaging
Info, Definition of AIPs, Catalog Info, reports, billing, DMPs, Design Docs,
etc.)  Much of this may also be exchanged with users (either DC or non-DC).

I'm not sure that it is possible to identify what is of value to the DC or
non-DC audience.  It may be better to identify the source of the info
(logically from one or more AIPs or not from an AIP)

Hope, Health, or Peace,

-JOhn

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 2:36 PM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

(Changed subject line from the thread below)

There weren't any other responses to David's note below, and we did touch on
data vs. information in the last telecon, but I don't think we resolved
anything.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that.  

I think that the discussion below would benefit form addition of the
"Designated Community".  Moreover, I think what we can promise from OAIS-IF
is.

For the Designated Community, an OAIS-IF archive provides interoperability
of information.  (OAIS RM requires that the designated community can
understand the content of DIPs).  

For those outside the designated community, OAIS-IF only guarantees
interoperability of data.  OAIS-IF allows access and retrieval of data, but
the OAIS-RM compliant archive doesn't guarantee it has the Representation
Information that can be interpreted by those outside the designated
community.  

In the latter case, if an OAIS RM compliant archive wants to go the extra
mile and provide Representation Information that even (*some?*) consumers
from outside the Designated Community can understand, then they are welcome
to do that.  But they are not required.  Therefore interoperability of
information is provided for the Designated Community and perhaps others.
But it may be that only interoperability of data is provided outside the
Designated Community.  

Does that ring a bell? (good or bad?)  

   -=- Mike

Mike Kearney

Huntsville, Alabama, USA 

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 5:58 AM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Hi John

One immediate, absolutely fundamental, question arises from your comments,
for example your first comment:

Although information exchange rather than data exchange is an admirable
goal, I thought main purpose of OAIS-IF was interoperability. I think we
should be aiming for interoperability whether information or data is
exchanged.

The question is "What is interoperability?". We need to agree on that
otherwise we are talking at cross-purposes.

http://interoperability-definition.info/en/ has a definition:

Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose
interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or
systems, present or future, in either implementation or access, without any
restrictions.

My understanding was that to have interoperability of information from
different domains, say Solar studies and Meteorology, one needed to be able
to "combine" ("work with") the information from those domains e.g. plot the
heat output from the Sun against weather patterns to see if Global Warming
is caused by the Sun rather than Man. This requires more than just getting
the data - which one can probably do already pretty easily. My belief was
that this is why we are talking about an OAIS-IF - because one of the OAIS
fundamental drivers is about understandability and usability.

Maybe some would think that interoperability is just finding relevant
information e.g. where are is Solar energy output data? Well there are lots
of things that exist already e.g. Google.

Maybe some would think that interoperability is just getting the data from
multiple domains together. Well again that is pretty easy right now. Besides
which isn't the fundamental point in OAIS that we need more than the Data
Object?

My question is "What does an OAIS-IF need to do?" in other words , what is
the link to OAIS? Since we said this was not about the internals of the
archives, OAIS-IF is not about the details of preservation, except when one
os transferring (copies of) AIPs to another archive as part of the
preservation strategy. 

To my mind the answer is that it has to deal with
understandability/usability of the information which is encoded in data,
together with evidence about Authenticity.  

Perhaps we can discuss this today.

Regards

..David

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of garrett at his.com
<mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Sent: 12 January 2021 02:40
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Hi,

Great start.

I've added a number of comments to help move it forward.

Hope, Health, and Peace,

-JOhn

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 2:57 PM
To: MOIMS-DAI List <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Meeting: 10:00 Tuesday (Washington DC time), 1500 UK time, 1600 Paris time

If you do not receive a notification from Skype then please join it by
clicking the link:

 <https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD> https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD

*Don't have Skype yet? Download it before you join  <https://www.skype.com>
https://www.skype.com

Draft agenda:

1.	OAIS-IF

a.	Updated Draft Green Book
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf9hig3j9646jg6/OAIS-IF%20Rationale%20Scenarios%20
and%20Requirements-20210107.docx?dl=0

..David

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