[Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Mon Jan 18 15:47:00 UTC 2021

Hi,

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

I prefer that there is an option to send only data, but exchange of
information is also possible.

Maybe even the exchange of info is the default.

Or even that the format for exchange is logically for info, but that the
RepInfo portion in the exchange could often be null.

I'm not sure how I feel about the RepInfo normally being a pointer, I'll
have to think about it.

In my mind that would mean that if the servicer user wanted the actual
RepInfo they would have to generate another request to actually get it.

The other side to that is that if you were actually interested is
downloading a bunch of data, you wouldn't necessarily get the RepInfo each
time.

I'm also not sure how I feel about it being a pointer to the Rep Info
Network.  

I think that would be OK as option, but I would also like to be able to just
send the RepInfo rather than just providing a pointer to it.

I need to check, but I think that is possibly what PAIS allowed by using
XFDU.  

You could either physically included files or provide links. 

Yes, I agree that not all exchanges will be with a Consumer.  

Exchanges will be between archives and users, whether consumers, producers,
or managers.

Hope, Health and Peace,

-JOhn

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> On Behalf Of
david at giaretta.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 10:27 AM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Hi John

You say you would prefer only to send data. So then presumably if one wants
the Rep Info one would make another request to the information source,
giving some reference to the data one is talking about.

My preference would be to send Information i.e. data plus some Rep Info.
However bear in mind that the RepInfo would effectively just be a pointer to
the start of a Rep Info Network. To my mind this is neater and lead to a
simpler set of interfaces.

Also I would like to talk generally - again for neatness and simplicity - so
not all the exchanges will be between an OAIS and a Consumer - as described
in the GB.

Regards

..David

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of garrett at his.com
<mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Sent: 18 January 2021 08:39
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

Hi Mike,

I have sent a separate response to the David's message today before I worked
my way to your response.

I agree that the MOIMS DAI group was discussing issues regarding whether
OAIS-IF interfaces always required information exchanges vs. data exchanges.

My preference is that individual exchanges could transfer only data.  That
data could become information by previously or subsequently having
representation information.

As for the DC, RepInfo and PDI Information that logically originates in the
AIP is by definition directed at the DC.  They may or may not be enough info
to support the needs of non-DC users.

In addition, archives may hold additional RepInfo and various other
data/information related to the AIPs or the archives operations (Packaging
Info, Definition of AIPs, Catalog Info, reports, billing, DMPs, Design Docs,
etc.)  Much of this may also be exchanged with users (either DC or non-DC).

I'm not sure that it is possible to identify what is of value to the DC or
non-DC audience.  It may be better to identify the source of the info
(logically from one or more AIPs or not from an AIP)

Hope, Health, or Peace,

-JOhn

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
kearneysolutions at gmail.com <mailto:kearneysolutions at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 2:36 PM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC

(Changed subject line from the thread below)

There weren't any other responses to David's note below, and we did touch on
data vs. information in the last telecon, but I don't think we resolved
anything.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that.  

I think that the discussion below would benefit form addition of the
"Designated Community".  Moreover, I think what we can promise from OAIS-IF
is.

For the Designated Community, an OAIS-IF archive provides interoperability
of information.  (OAIS RM requires that the designated community can
understand the content of DIPs).  

For those outside the designated community, OAIS-IF only guarantees
interoperability of data.  OAIS-IF allows access and retrieval of data, but
the OAIS-RM compliant archive doesn't guarantee it has the Representation
Information that can be interpreted by those outside the designated
community.  

In the latter case, if an OAIS RM compliant archive wants to go the extra
mile and provide Representation Information that even (*some?*) consumers
from outside the Designated Community can understand, then they are welcome
to do that.  But they are not required.  Therefore interoperability of
information is provided for the Designated Community and perhaps others.
But it may be that only interoperability of data is provided outside the
Designated Community.  

Does that ring a bell? (good or bad?)  

   -=- Mike

Mike Kearney

Huntsville, Alabama, USA 

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 5:58 AM
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Hi John

One immediate, absolutely fundamental, question arises from your comments,
for example your first comment:

Although information exchange rather than data exchange is an admirable
goal, I thought main purpose of OAIS-IF was interoperability. I think we
should be aiming for interoperability whether information or data is
exchanged.

The question is "What is interoperability?". We need to agree on that
otherwise we are talking at cross-purposes.

http://interoperability-definition.info/en/ has a definition:

Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose
interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or
systems, present or future, in either implementation or access, without any
restrictions.

My understanding was that to have interoperability of information from
different domains, say Solar studies and Meteorology, one needed to be able
to "combine" ("work with") the information from those domains e.g. plot the
heat output from the Sun against weather patterns to see if Global Warming
is caused by the Sun rather than Man. This requires more than just getting
the data - which one can probably do already pretty easily. My belief was
that this is why we are talking about an OAIS-IF - because one of the OAIS
fundamental drivers is about understandability and usability.

Maybe some would think that interoperability is just finding relevant
information e.g. where are is Solar energy output data? Well there are lots
of things that exist already e.g. Google.

Maybe some would think that interoperability is just getting the data from
multiple domains together. Well again that is pretty easy right now. Besides
which isn't the fundamental point in OAIS that we need more than the Data
Object?

My question is "What does an OAIS-IF need to do?" in other words , what is
the link to OAIS? Since we said this was not about the internals of the
archives, OAIS-IF is not about the details of preservation, except when one
os transferring (copies of) AIPs to another archive as part of the
preservation strategy. 

To my mind the answer is that it has to deal with
understandability/usability of the information which is encoded in data,
together with evidence about Authenticity.  

Perhaps we can discuss this today.

Regards

..David

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of garrett at his.com
<mailto:garrett at his.com> 
Sent: 12 January 2021 02:40
To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Hi,

Great start.

I've added a number of comments to help move it forward.

Hope, Health, and Peace,

-JOhn

From: MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org> > On Behalf Of
david at giaretta.org <mailto:david at giaretta.org> 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 2:57 PM
To: MOIMS-DAI List <moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org
<mailto:moims-dai at mailman.ccsds.org> >
Subject: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow

Meeting: 10:00 Tuesday (Washington DC time), 1500 UK time, 1600 Paris time

If you do not receive a notification from Skype then please join it by
clicking the link:

 <https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD> https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD

*Don't have Skype yet? Download it before you join  <https://www.skype.com>
https://www.skype.com

Draft agenda:

1.	OAIS-IF

a.	Updated Draft Green Book
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf9hig3j9646jg6/OAIS-IF%20Rationale%20Scenarios%20
and%20Requirements-20210107.docx?dl=0

..David

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