From erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec 10 13:25:13 2025
From: erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov (Barkley, Erik J (US 3970))
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 18:25:13 +0000
Subject: [CSS-CLOUD] gRPC and AWS
Message-ID: <DM8PR09MB65836443DC44E802F1E9F736FAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Holger,

I was curious to see what an AI would have to say regarding this prompt ?Do various implementations, enterprises, make use of gRPC with AWS??.  Below is what Gemini (essentially google on it?s Amazon competitor) had to say.   In summary there appears to be significant integration of gRPC with AWS.  I also asked it to provide real-world examples and it cited a few such as Lyft (a service like Uber) that apparently uses gRPC on AWS to push out vehicle locations to mobile apps.

Best regards,
-Erik

---Gemini response---

Yes, absolutely. Various implementations and enterprises heavily utilize gRPC with AWS to build high-performance, scalable, and resilient microservices architectures.1
AWS has continuously improved its support for gRPC, offering native integration with key networking and compute services.2
Here is an overview of the primary ways gRPC is used on AWS:
________________________________
1. Networking and Load Balancing3
AWS provides direct support for gRPC traffic through its Application Load Balancer (ALB) and Content Delivery Network (CDN) services.4

  *   Application Load Balancer (ALB):
     *   HTTP/2 End-to-End Support: ALB provides native support for HTTP/2, which is the underlying transport protocol for gRPC.5 This allows the ALB to properly inspect, route, and load balance gRPC traffic between services.6
     *   gRPC Health Checks: ALBs can perform gRPC-specific health checks (using the standard /aws.grpc.health.v1.Health/Check endpoint) to ensure that only healthy gRPC targets receive traffic.7
  *   Amazon CloudFront:
     *   CloudFront (AWS's global CDN) can accept gRPC requests and proxy them to your origin servers.8 This is crucial for reducing latency for global users and benefiting from CloudFront's security features (like AWS WAF) at the edge.9
  *   AWS VPC Lattice:
     *   This application networking service is designed for service-to-service communication and offers native support for gRPC, simplifying connection, monitoring, and security across services in a VPC.
2. Compute Platforms
gRPC-based microservices are most commonly deployed on AWS's container services.10

  *   Amazon ECS (Elastic Container Service) & AWS Fargate:
     *   Many enterprises containerize their gRPC services using Docker and deploy them on ECS, often using Fargate (the serverless compute engine) for easy scaling.11 The ALB (mentioned above) sits in front of the ECS tasks to handle load balancing.12
  *   Amazon EKS (Elastic Kubernetes Service):
     *   In Kubernetes environments on AWS (EKS), gRPC is used extensively for inter-service communication. Traffic routing is often managed using Ingress Controllers or service mesh tools like Envoy or Istio, which sit inside the EKS cluster and are highly optimized for gRPC/HTTP/2 traffic.13
  *   AWS Lambda:
     *   While Lambda is generally best suited for REST/HTTP/1.1 endpoints, it can be used as a gRPC client in a simple request/response (Unary) pattern.14 Full gRPC streaming capabilities (server, client, or bidirectional) are typically better handled by the persistent connections available in ECS or EKS.15
3. Service Discovery and Communication
gRPC's efficient, binary nature is ideal for the high-volume, low-latency communication needed in modern architectures.16

  *   Service Discovery: Services running on AWS often leverage AWS Cloud Map for service discovery, allowing gRPC clients to efficiently find and communicate with their respective gRPC server endpoints without hardcoding IP addresses.17
  *   Microservices Communication: This is the most prevalent use case. Companies use gRPC to replace or supplement REST/JSON for communication between their internal microservices due to the superior performance and the strict contract enforcement provided by Protocol Buffers.18
? Key Benefits for AWS Users

  1.  Performance: The combination of gRPC's Protocol Buffer serialization and AWS's HTTP/2 support in ALB and CloudFront results in significantly lower latency and higher throughput for inter-service calls compared to traditional JSON/REST over HTTP/1.1.
  2.  Architecture Flexibility: The ability to use all four streaming types (Unary, Server, Client, Bidirectional) allows for the creation of complex, real-time applications (e.g., live dashboards, real-time order tracking) that are difficult to build with standard REST.19
  3.  Cross-Language Support (Polyglot): Given AWS's support for many programming languages, gRPC enables development teams to use the best language for each microservice while maintaining a consistent, type-safe API contract.20
In summary, gRPC is a first-class citizen in modern, cloud-native deployments on AWS, particularly within containerized environments (ECS/EKS).

AWS Service / Feature
Key Feature Cited
Relevant AWS Documentation
Application Load Balancer (ALB)
Native support for HTTP/2, gRPC routing, and gRPC-specific health checks (/aws.grpc.health.v1.Health/Check).
AWS Documentation for Application Load Balancer (specifically the sections on Listeners, Target Groups, and supported Protocols).
Amazon EKS / ECS
Primary compute environments for hosting containerized gRPC microservices.
AWS Open Source Blog and documentation examples showing how to containerize and deploy gRPC applications on Fargate and EKS.
AWS Cloud Map
Used for service discovery within the AWS environment to allow gRPC clients to find service endpoints.
AWS Cloud Map Documentation integrated with ECS and EKS for microservices.


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From erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec 10 16:09:36 2025
From: erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov (Barkley, Erik J (US 3970))
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 21:09:36 +0000
Subject: [CSS-CLOUD] Adding a CDDS orange book
Message-ID: <DM8PR09MB65832E8FBED443AE1F9A161BFAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Holger,

One, somewhat unfortunate, consequence for CDDS Orange book is that we will need to have an orange book project defined and approved.

Here is the current blue book description which has been approved:


"Formal data format standards for terrestrial delivery of data types
between mission operation centers and ground stations including
telemetry, tracking, telecommand, and ground station monitor
data. Specifications to leverage existing applicable CCSDS
standards to provide a modern encoding technique. Streaming data
and file delivery to be addressed. Considerations for mission
operation center and ground stations in adopting cloud computing
data delivery to be addressed."

Would you like to provide an Orange Book description - presumably based on the above?  I think it would just be a minor addition to express use of gRPC?

Also, presumably we have the milestones consideration (see below for current Blue Book).  I think we would want to indicate this as complete in March 2026?  Or should we say more like July 2026 given internal CCSDS processing time needed (but the OB draft could still be available by March 2026).  What do you think?

Best regards,
-Erik

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From Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int  Thu Dec 11 05:01:54 2025
From: Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int (Holger Dreihahn)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 10:01:54 +0000
Subject: [CSS-CLOUD] gRPC and AWS
In-Reply-To: <DM8PR09MB65836443DC44E802F1E9F736FAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM8PR09MB65836443DC44E802F1E9F736FAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <PA1PR05MB120800DA53DA05C9A45813B5FF0A1A@PA1PR05MB12080.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Erik,
Thanks! Yes, I was checking the same and gRPC support seems widely given. In addition, it is really efficient to use. That makes me believe it is a good choice. For CCSDS or standardization in general I like the fact that you get a very clear and concise way to describe services. As a developer I like the easy and efficient way to implement gRPC services.

Best regards,
Holger

From: Barkley, Erik J (US 3970) <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Wednesday, 10. December 2025 at 19:25
To: Holger Dreihahn <Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int>
Cc: CDDS WG <css-cloud at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: gRPC and AWS

Hi Holger,

I was curious to see what an AI would have to say regarding this prompt ?Do various implementations, enterprises, make use of gRPC with AWS??.  Below is what Gemini (essentially google on it?s Amazon competitor) had to say.   In summary there appears to be significant integration of gRPC with AWS.  I also asked it to provide real-world examples and it cited a few such as Lyft (a service like Uber) that apparently uses gRPC on AWS to push out vehicle locations to mobile apps.

Best regards,
-Erik

---Gemini response---

Yes, absolutely. Various implementations and enterprises heavily utilize gRPC with AWS to build high-performance, scalable, and resilient microservices architectures.1
AWS has continuously improved its support for gRPC, offering native integration with key networking and compute services.2
Here is an overview of the primary ways gRPC is used on AWS:
________________________________
1. Networking and Load Balancing3
AWS provides direct support for gRPC traffic through its Application Load Balancer (ALB) and Content Delivery Network (CDN) services.4

  *   Application Load Balancer (ALB):
     *   HTTP/2 End-to-End Support: ALB provides native support for HTTP/2, which is the underlying transport protocol for gRPC.5 This allows the ALB to properly inspect, route, and load balance gRPC traffic between services.6
     *   gRPC Health Checks: ALBs can perform gRPC-specific health checks (using the standard /aws.grpc.health.v1.Health/Check endpoint) to ensure that only healthy gRPC targets receive traffic.7
  *   Amazon CloudFront:
     *   CloudFront (AWS's global CDN) can accept gRPC requests and proxy them to your origin servers.8 This is crucial for reducing latency for global users and benefiting from CloudFront's security features (like AWS WAF) at the edge.9
  *   AWS VPC Lattice:
     *   This application networking service is designed for service-to-service communication and offers native support for gRPC, simplifying connection, monitoring, and security across services in a VPC.
2. Compute Platforms
gRPC-based microservices are most commonly deployed on AWS's container services.10

  *   Amazon ECS (Elastic Container Service) & AWS Fargate:
     *   Many enterprises containerize their gRPC services using Docker and deploy them on ECS, often using Fargate (the serverless compute engine) for easy scaling.11 The ALB (mentioned above) sits in front of the ECS tasks to handle load balancing.12
  *   Amazon EKS (Elastic Kubernetes Service):
     *   In Kubernetes environments on AWS (EKS), gRPC is used extensively for inter-service communication. Traffic routing is often managed using Ingress Controllers or service mesh tools like Envoy or Istio, which sit inside the EKS cluster and are highly optimized for gRPC/HTTP/2 traffic.13
  *   AWS Lambda:
     *   While Lambda is generally best suited for REST/HTTP/1.1 endpoints, it can be used as a gRPC client in a simple request/response (Unary) pattern.14 Full gRPC streaming capabilities (server, client, or bidirectional) are typically better handled by the persistent connections available in ECS or EKS.15
3. Service Discovery and Communication
gRPC's efficient, binary nature is ideal for the high-volume, low-latency communication needed in modern architectures.16

  *   Service Discovery: Services running on AWS often leverage AWS Cloud Map for service discovery, allowing gRPC clients to efficiently find and communicate with their respective gRPC server endpoints without hardcoding IP addresses.17
  *   Microservices Communication: This is the most prevalent use case. Companies use gRPC to replace or supplement REST/JSON for communication between their internal microservices due to the superior performance and the strict contract enforcement provided by Protocol Buffers.18
? Key Benefits for AWS Users

  1.  Performance: The combination of gRPC's Protocol Buffer serialization and AWS's HTTP/2 support in ALB and CloudFront results in significantly lower latency and higher throughput for inter-service calls compared to traditional JSON/REST over HTTP/1.1.
  2.  Architecture Flexibility: The ability to use all four streaming types (Unary, Server, Client, Bidirectional) allows for the creation of complex, real-time applications (e.g., live dashboards, real-time order tracking) that are difficult to build with standard REST.19
  3.  Cross-Language Support (Polyglot): Given AWS's support for many programming languages, gRPC enables development teams to use the best language for each microservice while maintaining a consistent, type-safe API contract.20
In summary, gRPC is a first-class citizen in modern, cloud-native deployments on AWS, particularly within containerized environments (ECS/EKS).

AWS Service / Feature
Key Feature Cited
Relevant AWS Documentation
Application Load Balancer (ALB)
Native support for HTTP/2, gRPC routing, and gRPC-specific health checks (/aws.grpc.health.v1.Health/Check).
AWS Documentation for Application Load Balancer (specifically the sections on Listeners, Target Groups, and supported Protocols).
Amazon EKS / ECS
Primary compute environments for hosting containerized gRPC microservices.
AWS Open Source Blog and documentation examples showing how to containerize and deploy gRPC applications on Fargate and EKS.
AWS Cloud Map
Used for service discovery within the AWS environment to allow gRPC clients to find service endpoints.
AWS Cloud Map Documentation integrated with ECS and EKS for microservices.


This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo at esa.int).
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From Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int  Thu Dec 11 05:43:51 2025
From: Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int (Holger Dreihahn)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 10:43:51 +0000
Subject: [CSS-CLOUD] CDDS notes from yesterday's teleconference
Message-ID: <PA1PR05MB12080D5F74F649DC2592A494DF0A1A@PA1PR05MB12080.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Dear CDDS Colleagues,
Please find attached and on CWE the notes from yesterday's telecon for your review:
2025-12-10-TeleconferenceNotes-CDDS-WG.docx<https://spacecomm.sharepoint.com/:w:/r/sites/CSS/Shared%20Documents/CSS-CLOUD/Meeting%20Materials/2025/Telecons/2025-12-10-TeleconferenceNotes-CDDS-WG.docx?d=wf8702bf21437495aaaa861ff425e2518&csf=1&web=1&e=c0H2Ov>

For the ones not attending, you may want to check the proposal having a CDDS Orange Book in addition to the Blue Book. Feedback from all about the proposal is welcome.

Best regards,
Holger
This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo at esa.int).
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From Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int  Tue Dec 16 03:22:52 2025
From: Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int (Holger Dreihahn)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2025 08:22:52 +0000
Subject: [CSS-CLOUD] Adding a CDDS orange book
In-Reply-To: <DM8PR09MB65832E8FBED443AE1F9A161BFAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM8PR09MB65832E8FBED443AE1F9A161BFAA0A@DM8PR09MB6583.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <PA1PR05MB12080B91BFA60F798944327FCF0AAA@PA1PR05MB12080.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Erik,
I think an Orange Book project would be good. I think adding the gRPC is a good point, as this is indeed an addition we plan. What about the below:


?Formal data format standards and gRPC services for terrestrial delivery of data types

between mission operation centers and ground stations including

telemetry, tracking, telecommand, and ground station monitor

data. Specifications to leverage existing applicable CCSDS

standards to provide a modern encoding technique. Streaming data

and file delivery to be addressed. Considerations for mission

operation center and ground stations in adopting cloud computing

data delivery to be addressed.?



For the schedule we could go for March, if needed we extend.

Best regards,
Holger

From: Barkley, Erik J (US 3970) <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Wednesday, 10. December 2025 at 22:09
To: Holger Dreihahn <Holger.Dreihahn at esa.int>
Cc: CDDS WG <css-cloud at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Adding a CDDS orange book

Hello Holger,

One, somewhat unfortunate, consequence for CDDS Orange book is that we will need to have an orange book project defined and approved.

Here is the current blue book description which has been approved:


?Formal data format standards for terrestrial delivery of data types
between mission operation centers and ground stations including
telemetry, tracking, telecommand, and ground station monitor
data. Specifications to leverage existing applicable CCSDS
standards to provide a modern encoding technique. Streaming data
and file delivery to be addressed. Considerations for mission
operation center and ground stations in adopting cloud computing
data delivery to be addressed.?

Would you like to provide an Orange Book description ? presumably based on the above?  I think it would just be a minor addition to express use of gRPC?

Also, presumably we have the milestones consideration (see below for current Blue Book).  I think we would want to indicate this as complete in March 2026?  Or should we say more like July 2026 given internal CCSDS processing time needed (but the OB draft could still be available by March 2026).  What do you think?

Best regards,
-Erik

[cid:image001.png at 01DC69D6.0E60E060]
This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo at esa.int).
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