[CMC] [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Wed Jun 15 10:04:18 UTC 2016

Bonjour

Yes and agreed.

Regards

Jean-Marc Soula
CNES - DCT/OP/C-STA
Advisor, GN Operations
18 Avenue Edouard Belin
31401 Toulouse Cedex 9 - France
Tel.: +33 (0)5 61 2 74647
Fax.: +33 (0)5 61 2 73135
Email: Jean-Marc.Soula at cnes.fr
De : Shames, Peter M (312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Envoyé : vendredi 10 juin 2016 01:58
À : Soula Jean-Marc; osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de; CMC at mailman.ccsds.org
Cc : cesg at mailman.ccsds.org; ssg at mailman.ccsds.org
Objet : Re: [CMC] [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Dear Jean-Marc, Osvaldo, and the rest of the CMC,

It is clear that we will need to somehow accommodate this situation in our registries.  And I agree that we cannot tell all of these operators of geo sats that they are using the wrong terminology (even if they are).   The strongest consideration here, for the SANA and for CCSDS, is that we not allocate the same SCID to two satellites that are operating in the same frequency range, regardless of what they call it.

I hope we can all agree on that.  Yes?

So my solution is to use both the “frequency band” names and also the frequency numeric ranges.   They will have to specify one (or more) for uplink and one (or more) for downlink. We will get to place the SCIDs in the correct bin by the actual frequency range in use, regardless of what anyone chooses to call it.

Agreed?

Thanks, Peter

From: Jean-Marc Soula <Jean-Marc.Soula at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Marc.Soula at cnes.fr>>
Date: Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 6:12 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, "osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>" <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>, CMC <CMC at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:CMC at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Cc: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, "SANA Steering Group (SSG)" <ssg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: RE: [CMC] [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Bonjour

I tend to second Osvaldo’s comment. The geostationary satellite operators s around the world use the name Ku-Band for the band :

Bande Ku

Catégorie A: Montant= 13.75-14.5 GHz ; Descendant= 10.65-12.75 GHz

When operators of such satellites will ask for a SCId they will refer a Ku-Band mission, not ax X-Bands mission. CNES has a number of them among our assigned GSCIds.

At the minimum, this band should be identified specifically and, if you prefer to stick to IEEE and call it X-Band, a note or an abbreviation should associate that band to Ku-Geo.

Best regards

Jean-Marc Soula
CNES - DCT/OP/C-STA
Advisor, GN Operations
18 Avenue Edouard Belin
31401 Toulouse Cedex 9 - France
Tel.: +33 (0)5 61 2 74647
Fax.: +33 (0)5 61 2 73135
Email: Jean-Marc.Soula at cnes.fr<mailto:Jean-Marc.Soula at cnes.fr>
De : CMC [mailto:cmc-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org] De la part de Shames, Peter M (312B)
Envoyé : lundi 6 juin 2016 17:51
À : osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>; CMC at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:CMC at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc : cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>; ssg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Objet : Re: [CMC] [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Thanks Osvaldo.

Let’s see if any of the other CMC members have issues.

Best regards, Peter

From: "osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>" <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>
Date: Monday, June 6, 2016 at 8:45 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, CMC <CMC at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:CMC at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Cc: "SANA Steering Group (SSG)" <ssg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: AW: [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Hi Peter
Ok, yes I agree with you and I think we do not need to add the UL, DL is enough for the table
Thanks and best Regards
Osvaldo

Von: Shames, Peter M (312B) [mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov]
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 17:04
An: Peinado, Osvaldo Luis; CMC at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:CMC at mailman.ccsds.org>
Cc: ssg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg at mailman.ccsds.org>; cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Betreff: Re: [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Dear Osvaldo,

Thanks for taking the time to evaluate and respond.  In this table we have only listed the downlink frequencies.   If everyone on the CMC feels it is important we could also list the uplink frequencies as well.  One thing I do note is that uplink and downlink often use different frequency bands, and I think that some of that shows up in some of the entries you put into the table.

The S-band numbers seem to be the same,  except that you did not distinguish near Earth and Deep Space.
The X-band is identical
The range you have listed as Ku band DL (10.7 to 12.75 GHz DL) actually seems to be within what IEEE calls the X-band range (7-12 GHz), but the uplink is within the Ku range (12-18 GHz)
The range you have listed as the Ka (COM-Band) DL 18.1 – 21.2 GHz actually seems to be within what IEEE calls the K band (18-27 GHz)

I think if we are going to reference these IEEE / ITU frequency bands that we should apply them, and use their names and ranges, uniformly across all agencies.  Regardless of the name that might be given to them in any country it is the frequency ranges that are the useful discriminator for our purposes.  Don’t you all agree?

Thanks, Peter

From: SSG <ssg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of "osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>" <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>
Date: Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:08 AM
To: CMC <CMC at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:CMC at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Cc: "SANA Steering Group (SSG)" <ssg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:ssg at mailman.ccsds.org>>, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [SSG] Response to Conditions raised in CMC-P-2016-04-014 Approval for CCSDS Agency HoD and Spectrum Managers to provide actual spectrum allocations for active spacecraft

Hi Peter
I was checking the frequencies that we use with our antennas in Germany and there are some discrepancies, (in Red in Ku and Ka bands)
That is not the satellites but is the frequencies that we use to communicate with the satellites.

Table 2-1 ITU / IEEE Frequency Bands

IEEE FB Name

Near Earth Downlink

Abrv

Deep Space Downlink

Abrv

Antennas WHM

HF-band  0-30 MHz

Same

HF

Same

HF

VHF-band  30-300 MHz

Same

VHF

Same

VHF

UHF-band  300-1000 MHz

Same

UHF

Same

UHF

L-band  1-2 GHz

Same

L

Same

L

S-Band  2-4 GHz

2200-2290 MHz

S-NE

2290-2300 MHz

S-DS

2200 to 2300 MHz  DL
2025 to 2120MHz  UL

  C-Band  4-7 GHz

3400-4200 MHz

C

N/A

C

X-Band SRS 7-12 GHz

8450-8500 MHz

XS-NE

8400-8450 MHz

XS-DS

X-Band EES 7-12 GHz

8025-8400 MHz

XE-NE

N/A

XE-DS

8.025 to 8.400 GHz DL

Ku-Band 12-18 GHz

13.4-15.35 GHz

Ku

N/A

Ku

10.7 to 12.75 GHz DL
13.75 to 14.50 GHz UL

K-Band 18-27 GHz

K

K

Ka-Band SRS or EES 27-40 GHz

25.5 - 27 GHz

Ka-NE

31.8 – 32.3 GHz

Ka-DS

        “communication range” (COM-Band)         27.5 – 30.0 GHz UL
                                                                             18.1 – 21.2 GHz  DL

        “earth-observation range” (EO-Band)            22.55 – 23.15 GHz UL
                                                                                 25.5 – 27.5 GHz DL

V-Band 40-75 GHz (future)

V

V

W-Band 75-110 GHz (future)

W

W

Optical 1064 nm (future)

O1

O1

Optical 1550 nm (future)

O2

O2

Best Regards
Osvaldo

Dr. Osvaldo Peinado
Ground Operations Manager
German Space Operations Center (GSOC)
Tel:  +49 8153 28 3010
Fax:  +49 8153 28 1456
Mobile: +491729410099
German Aerospace Center (DLR)
Oberpfaffenhofen
82234 Wessling
Germany

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