[CESG] FW: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

Tue May 26 08:47:27 EDT 2026

I’m a supporter of getting drafts/works in progress out, but with something that really warns people that “if you implement to this, be aware it might change, and that’s your problem to fix”

From: <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2026 at 5:22 AM
To: Jim Lux <james.p.lux at jpl.nasa.gov>, <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>, <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: RE: [CESG] FW: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

Hi Jim,

Yes this was my very same impression. The point came up in the mailinglist while discussing the desirable roadmap, which included the following points:

“My own sense about extra-terrestrial networking goals/objectives is that:

1) We need aggregation to enable routing to scale.  It is the only approach known to work.

2) We need to have consistent allocation policies applicable to extra-terrestrial address allocations to achieve aggregation.

3) We want to avoid any national/nationalistic impairments to either of the above.”

And as to this last one (3) there was this statement about unsuitability of CCSDS being a closed club.
In the meantime the discussion also addressed another I-D about the same topic, but I see this more a business for that IETF WG.
In my opinion the point against CCSDS was a general complaint about the way CCSDS works (i.e. space agency driven), which does not allow new comers to get in easily. On the contrary other standardization bodies, i.e. IETF, makes this easier not only in terms of general participation but also in terms of access to the ongoing work, available draft documents, etc., which is a point we have already discussed in the last CESG meetings in Hamburg and also the year before.

Tomaso

From: Lux, Jim (US 430E) <james.p.lux at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2026 1:40 PM
To: de Cola, Tomaso <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>; Daniel.Fischer at esa.int; cesg at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: Re: [CESG] FW: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

In a bit of casual googling, I couldn’t find a requirement that a RIR or NRO be open to all comers.

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From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> on behalf of Tomaso de Cola - SIS AD via CESG <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2026 3:12:54 AM
To: Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int> <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>; cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org> <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: Re: [CESG] FW: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

Hi Daniel, all,

As you may recall, we have already discussed in the last couple of years the activity of the tiptop WG within IETF which is pushing for an IP-based solution for space communications, with the objective of re-using/profiling existing IETF protocols (e.g., IP and QUIC mostly) for their application in space. The full list of documents (I-Ds) prepared so far is available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/tiptop/documents/

At the time the WG was still a non-WG, many of us were involved in debating the suitability of an IP-based approach also in light of the CCSDS orientation to go for DTN-based solutions, but eventually IETF agreed to make such a WG though with a specific scope (a bit narrower than that proposed in the original non-wg deepspace). As far as I know Marc Blanchet developed some tools to prove the feasibility of an IP-based approach for emulated Voyager-communications. Some info are available on the WG Github.

I think that what is a bit concerning is the view shared within this WG by some members with respect to CCSDS role for defining RIRs: “Observation: To achieve (3), CCSDS is disqualified as a potential RIR for Space, because CCSDS is closed club.  It is NOT open to all comers on an equal footing at present.”

Regards,

Tomaso

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Daniel Fischer via CESG
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2026 3:37 PM
To: CESG Mailing List <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: [CESG] FW: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

FYI...something to talk about next week.

ESA – European Space Agency
Dr. Daniel Fischer (he/him) I  Lead Ground Systems Engineering Architect

Ground Segment Engineering and Innovation Department
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ESOC I Robert-Bosch-Str. 5, 64293 Darmstadt, Germany
Tel: +49 6151 902718
Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>   I   www.esa.int<http://www.esa.int/>

From: Marcus Wallum <Marcus.Wallum at esa.int<mailto:Marcus.Wallum at esa.int>>
Sent: Monday, 25 May 2026 10:14
To: Howard.Weiss at parsons.us<mailto:Howard.Weiss at parsons.us>; Bob Durst <durst at mitre.org<mailto:durst at mitre.org>>; Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int<mailto:Felix.Flentge at esa.int>>
Cc: Daniel Fischer <Daniel.Fischer at esa.int<mailto:Daniel.Fischer at esa.int>>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

FYI

Observation: To achieve (3), CCSDS is disqualified as a potential RIR for Space, because CCSDS is closed club.  It is NOT open to all comers on an equal footing at present.

-----Original Message-----
From: RJ A rja.lists at gmail.com<mailto:rja.lists at gmail.com>
Sent: 24 May 2026 18:54
To: tiptop at ietf.org<mailto:tiptop at ietf.org>
Cc: RJ A rja.lists at gmail.com<mailto:rja.lists at gmail.com>
Subject: [deepspace] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kumari-tiptop-address-space-00.txt

My own sense about extra-terrestrial networking goals/objectives is that:

1) We need aggregation to enable routing to scale.  It is the only approach known to work.

2) We need to have consistent allocation policies applicable to extra-terrestrial address allocations to achieve aggregation.

3) We want to avoid any national/nationalistic impairments to either of the above.

Observation: To achieve (3), CCSDS is disqualified as a potential RIR for Space, because CCSDS is closed club.  It is NOT open to all comers on an equal footing at present.

Now, I am not certain how best to achieve those 1/2/3 goals, but it seems worth having a broad discussion.

It might be worthwhile to focus initially on goals/objectives, perhaps with a focus on 1/2/3 above, which are technical questions.

Of course, ICANN, the ICANN NRO, and existing RIRs are part of the overall landscape  IETF’s role is on the technical substance, which I’ve tried to capture in 1/2/3 above.  Possibly I’ve missed other technical aspects of extra-terrestrial networking.

Yours,

Ran

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From: Howard.Weiss at parsons.us<mailto:Howard.Weiss at parsons.us> <Howard.Weiss at parsons.us<mailto:Howard.Weiss at parsons.us>>
Sent: 21 May 2026 18:28
To: Bob Durst <durst at mitre.org<mailto:durst at mitre.org>>; Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge at esa.int<mailto:Felix.Flentge at esa.int>>; Marcus Wallum <Marcus.Wallum at esa.int<mailto:Marcus.Wallum at esa.int>>
Subject: Fw: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

FYI - IANA vs SANA?

howie

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From: internet-drafts at ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts at ietf.org> <internet-drafts at ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts at ietf.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2026 4:17 PM
To: i-d-announce at ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce at ietf.org> <i-d-announce at ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce at ietf.org>>
Cc: deepspace at ietf.org<mailto:deepspace at ietf.org> <deepspace at ietf.org<mailto:deepspace at ietf.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] I-D Action: draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt

Internet-Draft draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt is now available. It is a
work item of the Taking IP To Other Planets (TIPTOP) WG of the IETF.

   Title:   IP Address Space for Outer Space
   Authors: Tony Li
            Marshall Eubanks
   Name:    draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02.txt
   Pages:   5
   Dates:   2026-05-20

Abstract:

   The exploration of outer space depends heavily upon communications
   technology and in many cases, uses IP.  IP address allocation has
   been formally assigned to Regional Internet Registries (RIRs), but
   there is no formal allocation of address space for networks in outer
   space.

   This document describes updates existing address allocation
   procedures to include address space for outer space.

The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-tiptop-address-space/

There is also an HTMLized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-li-tiptop-address-space-02

Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts

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