[CESG] [EXTERNAL] RE: MAL PIDs spreadsheet

Klaus-Juergen Schulz Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int
Wed Jul 20 07:41:51 UTC 2022


Dear Peter,

Please see my earlier email on the matter.

Escalation to CESG only if no consensus on the PID disposition can be reached.

Best Regards,

Klaus-Juergen

From: Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: 19 July 2022 23:44
To: Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de; Klaus-Juergen Schulz <Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>
Cc: cesg at mailman.ccsds.org
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [CESG] MAL PIDs spreadsheet

Dear Tomaso,

Thanks for the note.  I believe that you are correct about where we are in the process.  We were in "5.3.5.4.3 Conditional Approval" and now have passed into Disapproval because "the dispositions are rejected in whole or in part."  The CESG is now using the Consensus process to try and resolve the issue.  We agreed, by Consensus, to use the process that I proposed so as to limit the amount of material that the CESG was asked to evaluate.

I believe that we did not establish an agreed follow up gathering of the CESG, but instead chose to send all of the inputs to the SM&C WG for them to resolve.  I may have that wrong.  Perhaps Klaus-Juergen could clarify?

After we finish this process, if we still cannot reach a consensus (sec 5.1.2) the escalation process would normally be invoked (Annex F).  This would then become a CMC matter.  I believe that this is largely a technical matter and better handled by the CESG than the CMC, but that path is available if necessary.

Best regards, Peter



From: "Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>" <Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de<mailto:Tomaso.deCola at dlr.de>>
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 1:07 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Klaus-Juergen Schulz <Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int<mailto:Klaus-Juergen.Schulz at esa.int>>
Cc: CESG <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [CESG] MAL PIDs spreadsheet

Dear Peter, Klaus-J├╝rgen,

Thank you very much for the detailed summary and the pointers to the other relevant documentations provided in a following e-mail. Just a clarification about the process to follow from now on for this very specific situation:


  1.  I remember yesterday myself and Erik committed to provide feedback within two weeks or something like that. Then we should reconvene again to discuss and possibly converge. But what if we don't manage to converge? And in any case, do we already have a fixed appointment for such a discussion?
  2.  In my understanding of our CCSDS procedures, this is a very special case whose ongoing process is not thoroughly addressed in the corresponding yellow book. Shall we later consider extend the book towards these cases to avoid the iterative process lasts forever? From the present version of the document, I can read (I think we are now at b)):

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D89C1C.EF1EA550]

Thank you for a feedback,

Tomaso

From: CESG <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>> On Behalf Of Shames, Peter M (US 312B) via CESG
Sent: Montag, 18. Juli 2022 22:47
To: Barkley, Erik J (US 3970) <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [CESG] MAL PIDs spreadsheet

Dear Erik, at al,

Thanks for the reminder to provide the SM&C WG PID response spreadsheet, along with my rejoinders, as reviewed.  I think you will find that the PPT file, "SEA MO MAL document analysis 11Jul22" accurately summarizes the intent of my original PIDs.   There are some "further clarifications", I added in lines 25-29 of this spreadsheet after reviewing the PIDs and responses.  These are highly relevant, but did not appear in the original for reasons that I think will be clear.

Related to that, there was one additional discussion topic that briefly shows up on pg 15 of the PPT, that of the PICS pro forma, but it only gets a bullet and not a separate page.  I remind you that during the meeting we did compare the one page "PICS" in the MAL BB with parts of the comparable section in the CSS CSTS Framework, 921x1b2.  I think the differences in the level of care and detail is informative.

I will acknowledge, as Mehran pointed out, that many of my comments in the original text were formed as questions.  These questions were intended to get the SM&C WG to think carefully about the issues that were being raised because they were, almost uniformly, issues and concerns that could not be repaired with any simple "From: => To:" formulation.  In my judgement that form of input is only really suitable for simple editorial repairs to a sentence or a paragraph.

These issues are much broader and more pervasive than that, and I hope that has now been made crystal clear.

Lastly, I wish to state with clarity what I think we all agreed to:


  1.  That all of the members of the CESG who did not vote in the formal poll, or who voted "Approve Unconditionally", but then added comments to the effect that they agreed with my inputs, agreed to do the following:
     *   Review the submitted PIDs, the WG dispositions, and my rejoinders in the attached Excel file.
     *   Review the summary analysis PPT file, "SEA MO MAL document analysis 11Jul22", as presented.
     *   Assess whether the statements made in this analysis are accurate when compared to the cited sections and text in the MAL BB.
     *   Provide written feedback on their assessment of this analysis and the PIDs, preferably with some of their own supporting analysis and detail.
  2.  That the MOIMS SM&C WG review all of these inputs, both from me and from these other Area Directors, and provide, after suitable discussion, their responses, including:
     *   Re-assessment of their PID responses in light of these discussions.
     *   Assessment of the written inputs from the other Area Directors.
     *   Propose their approach for remedying these issues, either by editing the document so that it remedies the issues and aligns with CCSDS Blue Book publication standards, and CCSDS BB document norms, or by agreeing to reformat it as a normative, Magenta Book, "foundational" abstract reference model.
  3.  That I, and preferably the other CESG Area Directors, meet with the SM&C WG to review this feedback and resolve any remaining issues.

IIn fact, I think that this is a significant enough concern that it would be ideal if all CESG members, including those who voted "Approve Unconditionally", would participate in this process as well.   Only in this way can we assess if there really is consensus on the path forward.

I am willing to commit to this.

For the sake of all concerned, including the WG, the Area, the CESG, our member agencies, and all of our users I think it would be best to get these issues resolved.

Best regards, Peter


From: Erik Barkley <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Date: Monday, July 18, 2022 at 12:24 PM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: CESG <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org<mailto:cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>>
Subject: MAL PIDs spreadsheet

Hello Peter,

As you may recall, I volunteered to take a look at the MO MAL Agency Review CESG Poll PIDs and check them against the latest MAL document.  I see the presentation, dated July 11 in the CWE for CESG, but I do not find the spreadsheet there.  Can you please either send or (probably better) post the spreadsheet?  Thank you.

Best regards,

Erik Barkley
Cross Support Services Area Director
Consultative Committee for Space Data Systems
www.ccsds.org<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.us%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2Fwww.ccsds.org%2F__%3B!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!d172HopEZiBCUWoUI4WNSlEQBuceDOqyQCu0H4gsuomT3j8kA0qJPKfwT_0VmAYwXlvviz6d%24&data=05%7C01%7CKlaus-Juergen.Schulz%40esa.int%7Cce24344bf5f6470806a808da69cfd1dc%7C9a5cacd02bef4dd7ac5c7ebe1f54f495%7C0%7C0%7C637938638546984076%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9WNfgVBel931WrvcxhjYEDlwHXgWMm2dGxTf%2Far6ggk%3D&reserved=0>

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