[CESG] [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

[Shames, Peter M (312B)]

Hi Andrew,

I understood that what you were asking about was an ESA /ECSS workshop on Glossaries.  I thought you meant to address this not in the context of CCSDS, but in some ESA workshop.

From this email, however, it appears that you are not only wishing to address the topic of glossaries, but you (ECSS) propose to come and tell CCSDS how to create, write, produce, and review standards.  This is not a topic that is suitable for the SEA Systems Engineering WG.  If you wish to address that subject I suggest that you ask to bring it to the CCSDS Engineering Steering Group as a whole.

Please keep in mind that CCSDS has a nearly 40 year history of producing international and widely accepted standards for space communications, cross support, and interoperability.  We also have a well documented process for doing this which works well.  Of course it could be improved, and we have made incremental changes in it over the 20 years I have been involved in the organization.

I have copied the CCSDS Secretariat, who operate the CCSDS document processes, and the CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG), so that they are aware of this request.

I will entertain a discussion just on the subject of glossaries in the context of the SEA SAWG meeting.  I may also see if I can get some of the TC20/SC14 people who are also interested in this topic to participate at that time, during the CCSDS working meetings.

Best regards, Peter


From: "Andrew.Herd at esa.int" <Andrew.Herd at esa.int>
Date: Friday, June 21, 2019 at 11:12 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: "Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int" <Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int>, "Roger.Jegou at esa.int" <Roger.Jegou at esa.int>, "Laurent.Marchand at esa.int" <Laurent.Marchand at esa.int>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

Dear Peter,

Great response ... you cover all the central issues associated with glossary.

However to confirm, we are currently only proposing a ECSS / CCSDS glossaries focussed bilateral during the CCSDS fall meeting in Germany. This could be a dedicated meeting, or simply a 30 minute presentation during your WG activities.

At this we will present (relative to glossary)
A cleaner improved set of drafting rules
A new way of writing standards
A new process of reviewing standards
An improved way of searching ECSS
A more user friendly approach for users to understand terms and documents
New technology based capabilities

In all of these aspects we can consider how these capabilities are a way of;
Improving standardization ways of working
Improving point of use support in generation of standardization documents
Allowing users to compare (and select) varying definitions for terms

Our presentation aims to raise awareness of the new ECSS capabilities and to ask which areas (if any) CCSDS sees the need for closer collaboration

When we recently presented to ISO SC14, the hosts British Standarda Institute (BSI) were very interested from a "product development "  perspective (so not so much a content perspective).

I believe we have a relevant and interesting message and would very much hope that this offer is of interest (and is clearly on a non committal basis).

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Andrew



Sent from IBM Verse
Shames, Peter M (312B) --- Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies ---

From:

"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>

To:

Andrew.Herd at esa.int

Cc:

Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int, Roger.Jegou at esa.int, Laurent.Marchand at esa.int

Date:

Mon, 17 Jun 2019 7:59 pm

Subject:

Re: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

________________________________

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for reaching out with this information.  You are correct that I am the Systems Engineering Area (SEA) Area Director, and in that role that I also have cognizance over the CCSDS SANA website and the Glossary that we maintain.  That Glossary is updated with terms that have been specified in the various CCSDS Blue Book and Magenta Book normative standards that we publish.  In some cases there are even definitions that were published in an informative Green Book, especially if these provide a useful definition that is not otherwise published elsewhere.  As the ECSS Glossary Convenor I suspect that you also have a good understanding of the sorts of challenges that can be encountered in trying to keep these Glossaries up to date, and more importantly (at least in my mind) keeping them harmonized.

I'll be frank in pointing out that for some time now we have been trying to steer CCSDS toward doing this rather challenging "harmonization" task.  I had one of my JPL guys look at this a while back and we discovered a number of inconsistencies which were pointed out to the CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG), which is made up of me and the other CCSDS ADs, and the CESG chair and deputy.  There is an awareness now and several of the areas are doing the work to start to sort out inconsistencies and overlaps.  After a quick scan of your Glossary using a simple "packet" query, https://ecss.nl/home/glossary/?qry=packet, it appears that you have some of the same issues we do, and likely from the same sources.

Issues aside, I am not sure just what it is that you are suggesting.  You have your registry of terms from ECSS documents, some of which are clearly drawn from CCSDS documents.  We have our CCSDS Glossary.  And, as you appear to be aware, the TC20/SC14 is also interested in a Glossary and would like, I believe, to leverage what already exists in CCSDS, TC20/SC13.  I do not know that the IOAG (not IAQG) has a Glossary of their own, but they might.  I have not looked into that.

I am supportive of their being a glossary of terms related to space and space exploration.  I am also supportive of their being a suitably comprehensive, but also flexible, reference architecture so that these terms all can be understood relative to a common technical framework that is grounded in an architecture.  Along these lines, have you looked at the CCSDS Reference Architecture for Space Data Systems (RASDS), CCSDS 311.0-M-1?  This is the architectural framework we developed years ago.  And there is a companion pair of documents, the Space Communications Cross Support Architecture, an ADD (Green Book) and an ARD Requirements document (Magenta Book).  These are CCSDS 901.0-G-1 and CCSDS 901.1-M-1.  Bother are to be found on the CCSDS website at https://public.ccsds.org/Publications/default.aspx.  These use the RASDS framework to describe how some 90 of the CCSDS standards may be deployed to create interoperable communications architectures.  Does ECSS have any such reference architecture that your standards relate to?

Are you proposing that CCSDS and these other organizations participate in this ECSS (ESA) workshop in late October?  Is this to be a working meeting or mostly presentations?  Did you want us to present our Glossary and analyses to you, or were you proposing to only present to us?

Thanks, Peter

________________________________________________________

Peter Shames
CCSDS Systems Engineering Area Director

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, MS 301-490
California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA 91109 USA

Telephone: +1 818 354-5740<tel:818354-5740>,  Fax: +1 818 393-6871<tel:818393-6871>

Internet:  Peter.M.Shames at jpl.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________

We must recognize the strong and undeniable influence that our language exerts on our ways of thinking and, in fact, delimits the abstract space in which we can formulate - give form to - our thoughts.

Niklaus Wirth



From: "Andrew.Herd at esa.int<mailto:Andrew.Herd%40esa.int>" <Andrew.Herd at esa.int<mailto:Andrew.Herd%40esa.int>>
Date: Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 5:06 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames%40jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: "Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int<mailto:Nicolas.Bobrinsky%40esa.int>" <Nicolas.Bobrinsky at esa.int<mailto:Nicolas.Bobrinsky%40esa.int>>, "Roger.Jegou at esa.int<mailto:Roger.Jegou%40esa.int>" <Roger.Jegou at esa.int<mailto:Roger.Jegou%40esa.int>>, "Laurent.Marchand at esa.int<mailto:Laurent.Marchand%40esa.int>" <Laurent.Marchand at esa.int<mailto:Laurent.Marchand%40esa.int>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] ECSS work on e-Glossary - possible CCSDS synergies

Dear Peter,

As the ECSS Glossary TF Convenor, I have been asked by the ECSS Technical Authority to assess your interest in recent capabilities developed relating to e-Glossary.

Some of these capabilities are already provided on the current public website - ecss.nl<http://ecss.nl>, whilst others have yet to be released as a mobile app and as a plug-in to Microsoft Word (release expected by July 2019).

We understand that as you are the Area Director -  SYSTEMS ENGINEERING AREA (SEA), you oversee the CCSDS Glossary (and e-based Glossary).

There is a conference / workshop planned for late October, in Oberfaffenhoffen, and we were asking to present to you and your colleagues these capabilities to assess the opportunity for collaboration.

We recently presented to IAQG and ISO SC14, and received positive feedback.

Many thanks for your consideration,

Andrew

ESA - European Space Agency

Andrew Herd

TEC Knowledge Management Point of Contact
and Senior Standardization Engineer

Standardization and Engineering Knowledge Management (TEC-QR)
Product Assurance and Safety Department

ESTEC
Keplerlaan 1, Noordwijk, 2201 AZ, The Netherlands
andrew.herd at esa.int<mailto:andrew.herd%40esa.int> | www.esa.int
T +31 71 5656745<tel:715656745>

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