[CESG] FW: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

Wed Apr 5 17:47:37 UTC 2017

We regularly reference Green Books and expect them to provide correct descriptions of our standards and how to use them.  Having them out of date or inaccurate leaves us at risk of mis-leading our community.

That said, I would completely agree that Blue and Magenta Books should take precedence.

Thanks for the 740.0-G-1 correction.

Regards, Peter

From: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 10:21 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Subject: Re: [CESG] FW: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

Peter,
        note that discussing in the CESG was your proposal not mine......
For your list I also have a correction for  CCSDS 740.0-G-1 Mars Mission Protocol Profiles--Purpose and Rationale. Green Book. Issue 1. July 2008.
This book is not under SLS and according to Tom is under  SIS, produced by the Mars 2015 Interoperability Working Group.

Moreover I think that Green Books should be taken out from that list (it may be to a separate one) are they are not specifications.

Regards

Gippo

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        "CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec" <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:        05/04/2017 18:29
Subject:        [CESG] FW: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning
Sent by:        "CESG" <cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org>
________________________________

Dear CESG colleagues,

I am forwarding this to the whole CESG so they are aware of the issues.  Apologies to those who have already seen it.

Cheers, Peter

From: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 8:35 AM
To: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Cc: Erik Barkley <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>, Keith Scott <kscott at mitre.org>, "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>, Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, Tim Pham <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>, Wolfgang Hell <wo_._he at t-online.de>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Subject: Re: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

Hi Gippo,

The short answer to your question is that it is "in the queue", waiting for the resources to tackle this update and others, driven by changes such as USLP and optical.  We probably could use some sort of "queue" or "parking lot" to track these as they show up.

The longer answer is that I am fine with discussing this topic in the CESG.  I think it is important for us to keep all of our specs up to date, but also to keep them as stable as is practical.  This is an interesting balancing act since some of the new standards really need to evolve beyond where we started with TC, TM, and SPP, and that may involve accepting backward changes as well so as to not "hobble" the ones that are moving forward.  That said, when we do have this discussion I think we need to consider all of the "omnibus" type specs that we have, since they exist in more than one area and WG.  And some of the new specs have introduced features that should be retrofitted to older ones in order to keep the whole set aligned.

Those that I identified in a quick search (probably not a complete list) are these:

1.      CSS SCCS-ADD & ARD (of course, the COP issue and new standards like USLP & optical)
2.      CSS Cross Support Concept — Part 1: Space Link Extension (CSTS and deprecated specs)
3.      CSS Cross Support Reference Model—Part 1: Space Link Extension Services. (CSTS and deprecated specs)
4.      SLS OSCP (coding changes, USLP, & optical comm)
5.      SLS Coding Green Book
6.      SLS Telecommand Summary of Concept and Rationale (integrate AOS and USLP forward)
7.      SLS TM Channel Coding profiles (AOS & USLP, optical)
8.      SLS Mars Mission Protocol Profiles--Purpose and Rationale
9.      SIS SSI Architecture
10.  MOIMS Mission Operations Services Concept. Green Book
11.  MOIMS Mission Operations Reference Model
12.  MOIMS Navigation Data—Definitions and Conventions
13.  MOIMS Standard Formatted Data Units — Control Authority Data Structures (align with RMP)
14.  MOIMS OAIS & PAIS (align with RMP)
15.  SOIS Spacecraft Onboard Interface Services. Green Book (deal with the slew of silver standards)
16.  Unique Identification of CCSDS Objects and Services (I forgot this even existed, RMP alignment)
17.  And the MOIMS and SOIS Application & Support Layer architecture that is now in work …

Seems pretty obvious that there is a slew of CCSDS docs of various flavors that need to be brought up to date to ensure alignment with our evolving set of standards.  There is also a significant cost involved in doing this, along with the "churn" that will be involved in what has been a stable, if now somewhat out of date and inconsistent, full set of standards.

As I said before, I don't have a good answer re how we plan to keep all of this up to date and also develop new standards, but it is a topic that should be discussed.  And it is clearly broader than just a tweak to COP in the SCCS ADD.

Thanks, Peter

From: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 6:18 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Erik Barkley <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>, Keith Scott <kscott at mitre.org>, "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>, Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, Tim Pham <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>, Wolfgang Hell <wo_._he at t-online.de>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>
Subject: Re: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

Peter,
       where do we stand with this update to  <CCSDS 901.1-M-1 Space Communications Cross Support--Architecture Requirements Document. Magenta Book. Issue 1. May 2015>?
I admit that I got somehow lost as at a certain point I had the impression that the Technical corrigendum option was considered suitable but I haven't seen further activity on this.

Nestor,
       as Peter states that "CESG needs to come to agreement on how these sorts of "omnibus" specs are to be updated" should this become an agenda item for CESG Meeting/Discussion?

Regards

Gian Paolo

From:        "Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        "Barkley, Erik J (3970)" <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>, "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Cc:        "Keith Scott" <kscott at mitre.org>, "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>, "Tom Gannett" <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, "Pham, Timothy T (3300)" <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>, "wo_._he at t-online.de" <wo_._he at t-online.de>
Date:        16/11/2016 20:49
Subject:        Re: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning
________________________________

Yes.

But more than that, the CESG needs to come to agreement on how these sorts of "omnibus" specs are to be updated.  We are also in the midst of, at CMC request, generating another one for the other two CCSDS areas, SOIS and MOIMS.

Peter

From: Erik Barkley <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 at 11:47 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>, Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Cc: Keith Scott <kscott at mitre.org>, "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>, Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>, Tim Pham <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>, Wolfgang Hell <wo_._he at t-online.de>
Subject: RE: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

I think we have identified about as good a plan as we can for the moment.  I think it may be a CESG "problem" to the extent that CESG should, collectively, have, and work towards maintaining, a good idea of the architecture against which the CCSDS standards are being developed.

Best regards,
-Erik
From: Shames, Peter M (312B)
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:03 AM
To: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int; Barkley, Erik J (3970) <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Keith Scott <kscott at mitre.org>; Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int; Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>; Pham, Timothy T (3300) <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>; wo_._he at t-online.de
Subject: Re: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

I think Gippo makes a good point about the intended scope of TC's.  While I disagree that the document is "unstable by nature" I do agree that it is fundamentally a different kind of document than any others that we have published.  Most standards address one layer.  Some, like utilization profiles, may address 2 or three layers.  This one addresses 90 separate standards, services, seven layers of protocol stacks, component features, and end-to-end deployments.

I think we need to find a way to deal with the evolution of the four CCSDS areas of work that are covered by this and do it in a way that is effective and that also makes this document effective and credible.  This is not an issue we have had to face before and we did not, to be honest, think it all through ahead of time.

I do not have a good answer to offer at this moment, but I do think that gathering the edits, in a well documented form, agreeing on them, and queuing them up for "batch" is one way to achieve a level of stability.  If that results in needing to periodically invoke the usual, more formal, Pink Sheet process then that may be the best way forward.

Any other ideas on how to best handle the general case presented by this document?  Maybe this is a CESG topic?

Thanks, Peter

From: Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int<mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 at 2:16 AM
To: Erik Barkley <erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:erik.j.barkley at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Cc: Keith Scott <kscott at mitre.org<mailto:kscott at mitre.org>>, "Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int<mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>" <Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int<mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio at esa.int>>, Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Tom Gannett <thomas.gannett at tgannett.net<mailto:thomas.gannett at tgannett.net>>, Tim Pham <timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:timothy.t.pham at jpl.nasa.gov>>, Wolfgang Hell <wo_._he at t-online.de<mailto:wo_._he at t-online.de>>
Subject: RE: Shall FF-CSTS implement the FOP? / Technical corrigendum option / Just one warning

Dear All,
      I have just one warning.
IMO a Technical Corrigendum is appropriate for a limited number of corrections (and indeed the F-Frame case - 2 clauses and 1 note - falls into this classification).
If we expect to collect many items together we may exit from the Technical Corrigendum case.
If this would happen we would realize that there is a need for a formal Pink Review and also the easy correction will be queued up and delayed.

I can also agree that making several corrections may give the impression that a document is unstable but - on the other hand - this document is somehow "unstable by nature" with so many references to future needs/solutions.

Just my cent.........................

Regards

Gian Paolo
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