[CESG] FW: Poll rejected by CMC: CMC-P-2016-01-002

Shames, Peter M (312B) peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov
Tue Apr 19 19:01:20 UTC 2016

Dear CMC,

This is in reply to the CMC poll, CMC-P-2016-01-002, that requested approval for the SANA to revover all of the SCIDs that are assigned to simulators and other “flight-less birds”.  The response to this poll also made reference to other polls that addressed this same topic, but from different perspectives.  The initial poll was CMC-A-2015-11-02 which was sent out in November 2015, asking that the SANA inform the agencies of the SCIDs that were assigned to Simulators and that the agencies reply by 31 Jan 2016.

The status of this topic was discussed in the recent CESG meeting held in Cleveland on 11 April 2016.  The motivation for this action is that the number of unassigned Type 2 (AOS) SCIDs that are now available for allocation is only two (2).  Some concrete action by the CCSDS member agencies must be taken now or we risk not being able to support new space missions wishing to use the AOS protocol.  Of course, this necessity to free up unused SCIDs must not put operating missions at risk, but this same risk does not, and cannot, be applied to simulators which do not get communicated to by RF radiation..

Here is the chronology of activities related to this situation:

CMC-A-2015-11-02 Request to return SIM SCIDs

"SANA was requested to circulate a list, by agency, of the SCIDs that should be returned to SANA.

CMC member agencies should provide a response to SANA by 31 January 2016.”

  1.  The SANA circulated this request to each of the agencies.
  2.  Some agencies have responded (one such response is at the end of this message).
  3.  Not all agencies responded to this request

CMC-P-2015-12-003 Approval of Reclaiming Simulator SCIDs from the Registry

  1.  The resolution was provisionally accepted
  2.  CNES and JAXA stated specific provisions asking for “time to resolve", but with no defined completion date
  3.  There appears to have been no further action to close these provisions on behalf of the agencies

CMC-P-2016-01-002 Request approval of SANA action to recover SCIDs assigned to simulators

  1.  CNES and ESA ask for additional time
  2.  ESA & CSA ask for a list of the spacecraft
  3.  The list of spacecraft was sent to each agency with the original request, back in December 2015
  4.  There is no agreed termination point provided, but extending the dealine to “end of February” is proposed by ESA
  5.  INPE asks for a periodic (yearly) communique to the agencies re their assigned SCIDs

It is now the middle of April 2016, well past the “end of February” date that was proposed by ESA.  No other agency proposed a closure date.   The CESG discussed this topic on 11 April 2016.  This is the analysis provided by SEA and concurred by the CESG:

  *   By definition any simulator or “flight-less bird” is never communicated to using free space RF radiation.
  *   The whole purpose of SCID assignment is to provide a unique CCSDS identifier so that there is no mistake when sending data to S/C using RF radiation.
  *   Unless these rules are violated there is no possibility of ambiguity if the SCIDs for simulators or “flight-less birds” are recovered and re-assigned.
  *   In practical terms, the agencies may continue using the current SCIDs, or any other SCIDs that they wish to select, for simulators or “flight-less birds”, as long as they do not radiate them.
  *   Managing these “SIM SCIDs” is then purely an agency matter.
  *   Agencies have been notoriously slow (or un-responsive) in responding to requests for feedback or returning OIDs
  *   By count there are seven (7) identified Type 2 “SIM” allocations that could be recovered now
  *   There is no technical reason to delay this further, especially since there are only two (2) unassigned Type 2 SCIDs remaining.

It is already four (4) months since the original request was made and it is one and one half months past the end of February date proposed by ESA.   Since agencies may continue to use the SCIDs for their simulators, without risk of any kind, there is really no technical reason why this action to recover these SCIDs and make them available for assignment to real spacecraft should not be done immediately.

In order to avoid the very real possibility of running out of Type 2 SCIDs for assignment to real, operating, spacecraft the CESG requests that the CMC concur with this request CMC-P-2016-01-002.

If the CMC insists that still more time is needed then the following is proposed:

  1.  The SANA be instructed to again send out to each agency, the list of SCIDs that they have assigned for simulators and flightless birds
  2.  The agencies be given one month more, from the time that these lists are sent out, to coordinate with their missions
  3.  At the end of this time that the SANA take the action to recover these SCIDs, place them at the end of the list as is the current practice, and make them available for re-assigment to new spacecraft

Respectfully, Peter Shames (for the CESG)

From: Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia at esa.int<mailto:Nestor.Peccia at esa.int>>
Date: Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 9:48 AM
To: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: Poll rejected by CMC

please action accordingly
CMC E-Poll Identifier: CMC-P-2016-01-002
Request approval of SANA action to recover SCIDs assigned to simulators

Results of CMC poll beginning 5 January 2016 and ending 31 January 2016:

ADOPT: 5 (55.55%) (CNSA, DLR, FSA, JAXA, NASA)
REJECT: 0 (0%)

Results are based on responses from 9 out of 11 members (81.81%).

No response was received from the following Agencies:



CNES (REJECT WITH COMMENTS) -  The timeout is too short ; conditions stated in the previous CMC-P-2015-12-003 have not been disposed nor taken into account in this new poll.

CSA (ADOPT PROVISIONALLY) - It would be a good idea to get a list of SCIDs assigned to simulators per agency to make a last verification with our users before adopting this resolution.

ESA (ADOPT PROVISIONALLY) - It would be advisable to try and close action CMC-A-2015-11-02 and subsequent Agency responses if it has not happened so far.
I do not recall ESA having been informed of the SCIDs that are assigned to simulators.
I suggest to extend the deadline for the Agencies to relinquish the SCIDs assigned to simulators by end of February 2016

INPE (ADOPT PROVISIONALLY) - It would be advisable that SANA may send, possibly on an yearly basis,in separate, to each of the AGENCIES and ORGANIZATIONS representatives, an appropriate summary of the SCIDs which are assigned to each of them, for their verification and, under a deadline, response to the SANA Authority, reconfirming and or rectifying any existing assignment.

Secretariat Interpretation of Results: Rejected
Inferred Secretariat Action: Poll was rejected. Inform Peter Shames

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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CMC E-Poll Identifier: CMC-P-2015-12-003 Approval of Reclaiming Simulator SCIDs from the Registry

Results of CMC poll beginning 08 December 2015 and ending 22 December 2015:

              Adopt:  7 (77.77%) (CNSA, DLR, ESA, INPE, NASA, UKSA)
        Adopt Provisionally:  2 (33.33%) (CNES, JAXA)
              Reject:  0 (0%)
              Reject with Comments:  0 (0%)

Results are based on responses from 9 out of 11 members (81.81%).

No response was received from the following Agencies:



CNES - agrees on the following:
- the first action should be for all agencies to return the unused codes as it is obvious there are many (SC no longer in operations) ; this is considered the most efficient action to recover SCIds.
- no SCId should be allocated to simulators from now.
CNES agrees on the principle but will put a condition on the assigned GSCIds for simulators:
- when the list of those affected is provided by SANA, some time is needed to run a coordination with the projects and SANA should only remove these SCIds when the Agency representative will confirm agreement.
- as simulators are mainly version 1 SCIds, with more margins for new allocation, the additional delay is estimated acceptable ; however, CNES will first process the version 2 Ids, if any.

JAXA - agrees on the resolution. However, coordination on reclaiming SCIDs which have been assigned for satellites under development take sometime, and this circumstance should be taken into account.

Secretariat Interpretation of Results:  Adopted Provisionally
Resulting CMC Resolution:               CMC-R-2015-12-009
Inferred Secretariat Action:              Once Provisions Met, SANA Reclaim Simulator SCIDs.


From: "osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>" <osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de<mailto:osvaldo.peinado at dlr.de>>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 6:32 AM
To: "info at sanaregistry.org<mailto:info at sanaregistry.org>" <info at sanaregistry.org<mailto:info at sanaregistry.org>>
Cc: Peter Shames <peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:peter.m.shames at jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: AW: [SANA #8630] Request to return SIM SCIDs (CMC-A-2015-11-02)

Dear all

At the moment I can confirm that the













2211.0 MHz (A), 2260.8 MHz (B)

2211.0 MHz (A), 2260.8 MHz (B)



Can be give back, for the others project, I´m waiting for an answer, but during this time of the year will be very difficult

I guess beginning of next year we will have a confirmation

I wish you Merry Christmas


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Space Assigned Numbers Authority [mailto:info at sanaregistry.org]
Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Dezember 2015 17:34
An: Peinado, Osvaldo Luis
Cc: Space Assigned Numbers Authority
Betreff: [SANA #8630] Request to return SIM SCIDs (CMC-A-2015-11-02)

Dear Agency Representative,

Following the CMC resolution CMC-A-2015-11-02:

"SANA was requested to circulate a list, by agency, of the SCIDs that should be returned to SANA.

CMC member agencies should provide a response to SANA by 31 January 2016."

You will find attached the candidate list of SIM SCIDs found for your agency. Please confirm they

are indeed used for simulation and that they can be returned.

To relinquish, please provide then following information by email at info at sanaregistry.org<mailto:info at sanaregistry.org>:


- Version

- Spacecraft Name

- Channel(s)

- Frequencies

- Contact information (Name and affiliation) of the requester

Note the following context about the sim SCIDs:

* This same request is being made of all agencies who have requested SCIDs for simulators and other

“flight-less birds"

* The CMC intends for all of these simulator Ids to be returned to the pool of SCIDs available for

assignment for active mission communications

* Please relinquish these SCIDs, using the normal mechanisms defined in CCSDS 320.0-B-6, no later

than 31 January 2016

* Agencies may, within their own ground networks, continue to use these same numbers for their own


Thank you.


Best regards,

Audric Schiltknecht

Space Assigned Numbers Authority
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