[CESG] RE: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator
page in your Cleveland presentation (but not only)
Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int
Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int
Tue Dec 11 09:34:53 EST 2012
Thank you Mike for your good words.
Here my clarifications/comments:
The status ?Rediscussed? indeed referred to the case you mention and it
referred back to your statement "Also, they will all be able to select
?Not Yet Reviewed? to switch it from an approved/rejected status back into
a not yet decided status. " to distinguish not evaluated material from
something ?Reviewed once, but still undecided?.
As mentioned, at ESA we think the feature for ?holding back RIDs until
released? is really essential.
Thank to Brian for whatever effort he will be able to do and thank you for
taking this up at CMC/CESG.
Indeed there will be "only one Agency Review coordinator for one book".
An ancillary issue it popped up to my mind is about the need of a CWE
login to enter RIDs.
In ESA we use to extend the review invitation to guys that are normally
out of the CCSDS world, as a consequence there may be the need for a
disposable CWE login linked to a given review and usable by several
persons. Would this be feasible?
Regards
Gian Paolo
From:
"Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)" <mike.kearney at nasa.gov>
To:
"Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>
Cc:
CCSDS Tech Support <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>, CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering
Steering Group <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>, "Mario.Merri at esa.int"
<Mario.Merri at esa.int>
Date:
05/12/2012 19:39
Subject:
RE: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator page in your
Cleveland presentation (but not only)
Very good responses, Gian-Paolo, thanks much.
Your suggestions on more specific ?Disposition settings? are all very
good, except ?Reconditioned?. You also say ?Rediscussed?. I think you?re
trying to distinguish between ?Not Yet Reviewed? and ?Reviewed once, but
still undecided?. The implication is that once a coordinator looks at a
RID he can?t set it back to ?Not Yet Reviewed?. Is that correct?
If so, we can allow ?Not Yet Reviewed? to be set only by the system (not
the coordinator). Once the coordinator looks at a RID, instead of ?To Be
Reconditioned? perhaps he can set it to something like ?Under Review??
If I understand what you?re asking, I?m sure we can do that. We will take
the rest of your list of ?Disposition Settings? as our main guidance to
Brian right now.
I think we understand your desire for ?holding back RIDs until released?.
One problem is that it is difficult to implement within the Sharepoint
platform. But we will have Brian have a look at it. I will also mention
this during the CMC meeting as one of the open design questions.
Having more than one Agency Review Coordinator at a given time in the
system (for different books) is not an issue? but we are assuming there
is only one Agency Review coordinator for one book. I trust you aren?t
expecting more than one coordinator per book.
Yes, Gian-Paolo, I think we are very well converged. Only a few open
questions.
-=- Mike
Mike Kearney
Lead Technology Manager
Mission Operations Laboratory
NASA MSFC EO-01
+1-256-544-2029
From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:19 PM
To: Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)
Cc: CCSDS Tech Support; CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group;
Mario.Merri at esa.int
Subject: RE: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator page in
your Cleveland presentation (but not only)
Mike,
no apologies needed.
I will try to go in order.
It looks OK changing ?Status? to ?Disposition? and changing ?Disposition?
to say ?Rationale for Disposition?.
However I think there a couple of remarks for the values allowed for
?Disposition? wrt to which coordinator is doing that.
Therefore I would distinguish the ?Disposition? settings allowed to each
coordinator e.g.
a) WG Coordinator should be the only one allowed to set APPROVE / APPROVE
WITH MODIFICATIONS
b) Agency Coordinator should be the only one allowed to set FORWARDED TO
CCSDS
c) Center Coordinator should be the only one allowed to set FORWARDED TO
AGENCY
d) All Coordinators should be the only ones allowed to set RETURN TO
ORIGINATOR (i.e. go back to original author)
e) All Coordinators should be allowed to set REJECTED
f) All Coordinators should be allowed to set WITHDRAWN
g) Agency+ Center Coordinators should be allowed to set MODIFIED AND
FORWARDED TO CCSDS/MODIFIED AND FORWARDED TO AGENCY
h) All Coordinators should be allowed to set TO BE RECONDITIONED
I would insist on having also option g to allow minor editing to be
possible without triggering a ping-pong with the author, but informing the
author about the changes.
Note that during a real WG review may not be time for RID bouncing and
then the straight editing may be a useful alternative.
For option h I think that "NOT YET REVIEWED should be a starting state
when a RID arrives to be distinguished from a RID switching from an
approved/rejected status back into a not yet decided status (you may find
something better than TO BE RECONDITIONED or TO BE REDISCUSSED :o) .
For the term ?International Coordinator? opposite to ?WG Chair
Coordinator? or "CCSDS Coordinator" I do not have particular problems.
OK for your way of handling attached files. Attaching files is essential
for e.g. drawings, etc.
Opposite to you, we do see benefit in holding back? RIDs until a given
later date to allow proper consolidation within a given Agency also for
proper processing at next level.
As well the possibility for a "SEND ALL" option is very important e.g. in
cases where there several RIDs. Clicking individually 200 RIDs can be a
nightmare!
For the Agency Review Coordinator is OK getting it set by Secretariat , on
request from the agency members in the CESG or CMC.
However I would make clear that there could be more than one Agency Review
Coordinator at a given time; e.g. assume you have under review a book from
SLS and one from MOIMS, then I could be the ESA coordinator the the SLS
Book and Mario could be the ESA coordinator for the MOIMS book.
Creating an HTML report (eventually printable as pdf :o) looks
satisfactory.
I hope we are converging.
Best regards
Gian Paolo
From:
"Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)" <mike.kearney at nasa.gov>
To:
"Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int" <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int>, CCSDS Tech
Support <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>
Cc:
CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group <cesg at mailman.ccsds.org>
Date:
30/11/2012 22:06
Subject:
RE: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator page in your
Cleveland presentation (but not only)
Gian Paolo: I?m sorry in advance for a long email, but you had some very
good questions and observations, and I want to make sure they are
addressed. Here we go?
******************************
Ø Rejected......
- Returned to Originator.......
First of all I am puzzled by the last two items looking (almost)
identical. This shall be clarified
Rejected has the usual meaning? disapproved and will not be forwarded.
Returned to originator is for when the coordinator wants the originator to
make some changes before he can accept/forward the RID.
But first? based on your and Mario?s comments, on that screen on Page 11,
we are changing ?Status? to ?Disposition? because when the coordinator
selects that drop-down box, he is deciding on the disposition at his level
(may not be ?approve? but it is whatever the disposition is at his level).
And the text box that is below it that currently says ?Disposition? will
now say ?Rationale for Disposition?. We think that will answer some of
your confusion on the term ?Disposition?.
When the coordinator wants to return a RID to the originator to make some
changes (to make it acceptable), he selects ?Return to Originator? as the
disposition and types the rationale for why he returned it in the text
box. When he is finished and clicks ?Save? (at the top of the screen),
then an email will be sent to the originator. The originator then makes
some changes (as requested by the coordinator) and then resubmits it
(?Saves? it again). If he doesn?t resubmit for forwarding/approval, the
RID will not be processed.
Ø The reference to the Disposition is also puzzling me as it looks as the
same term is used for the real WG Review as well as for internal Agency
review and this is confusing
Ø In this respect I think the operations performed by the last one are
different from those performed by the other two guys.
I think you are saying that only the last level (?International? or ?WG
Chair?) actually does a disposition, and the first two levels, Center or
Agency, only forward them without a disposition. You are correct.
Brian was simplifying the screens for his presentation on Page 11. We did
intend to have a different screen for center and agency level coordinators
than we have for international (WG Chair) coordinators. However, your
discussion of ?Accept? and ?Approve? has exposed that we need to make
things more clear.
I think that the choices for Center and Agency (lower level) coordinators
should be:
· REJECT (see explanation in ?Rationale?)
· RETURN TO ORIGINATOR (for modification? see explanation in
?Rationale?)
· FORWARD to next level
Meanwhile the choices for the International Coordinator will be:
· REJECT (see explanation in ?Rationale?)
· RETURN TO ORIGINATOR (for modification? see explanation in
?Rationale?)
· APPROVE
· APPROVE WITH MODIFICATION (see explanation in ?Rationale?)
Also, they will all be able to select ?Not Yet Reviewed? to switch it from
an approved/rejected status back into a not yet decided status.
Does all that make sense? (Note? your suggestion for ?TO BE FORWARDED?
and ?ALREADY FORWARDED? is addressed by the responses below)
Ø I would assume that the last one is actually the WG Chair that will
report the final WG decision.
The current system refers to the last level as the ?International
Coordinator?. Probably that is because a large WG might see that the
chairman delegates to someone else in the WG. If you think we need to
call the last level ?WG Chair? rather than ?International Coordinator?, we
can consider that, but we should have some other CESG concurrence, since
the current system uses the ?International Coordinator? term.
Ø If we want to allow capturing internal Center/Agency discussions you
should have a mechanism for commenting back and forth (e.g. to ask
modifications to the originator or to allow modifications to the
originator).
The field (which was called ?Disposition? on page 11) is now ?Rationale
for Disposition?. The coordinator selects ?Return to Originator? as his
disposition, and writes his explanation in ?Rationale for Disposition?.
When he clicks ?Save? then an email alert will go to the originator with
the text of the ?Rationale for Disposition?. It?s then up to the
originator if he wants to revise as he has been asked. Also?
· When the International Coordinator does this, the email goes to
the Agency and Center level as well as the Originator.
· When the Agency level coordinator does this, the email goes to
the Center level as well as the Originator.
Ø In general I have the impression that the Review Coordinator will be
able to modify the entered RID as he likes. This is practical but it may
be give issues for changes not approved by the originator.
The system can be designed either way. We can ?lock out? anyone but the
originator from making changes. Or we can allow the
Center/Agency/International coordinators to make changes.
I have no idea, with the current system, if it is common practice for a
coordinator to ?change? the RIDs from their originators. Is that done
routinely? In that case, I think we should keep it as a capability. With
that philosophy, we are trusting the coordinators to make only minor or
editorial changes, not changes to the originator?s intent. I think this
would be faster, and prevent delays as coordinators go back-and-forth
discussing changes to the RIDs. This was the ?default? assumption that
Brian was using for the system he is developing.
However, if that is a problem and we want the originator *only* to revise
his RIDs as requested by the ?Return to Originator? function, then we can
do that also. Your opinions on this are welcome.
Ø Page 11 - A Review Coordinator should be able to see all the data
entered by the Originator but the snapshot shows nothing about attached
files.
The attached files will be visible, and will have icons on the page if
there is an attached file. And they will also be on the view of all
submitted RIDs. However, you will see the icon on the page, not the
actual document. To see the document you have to click on the icon to
open the attachment (like any email system functions). This is provided
by the normal SharePoint functions. If the CESG thinks that attached
files are not a good idea (because it adds workload or complexity to the
coordinators) that can be easily ?turned off?.
Ø Page 8 - Privacy Scheme. It is not clear to me whether a given
Coordinator would be able to see a RID as soon as it is approved at
previous level.
Yes he would. The concept is that a RID is forwarded as soon as the lower
level coordinator agrees. This way it will give the next level, or the
international coordinator, an earlier access to forwarded RIDs, allowing
more time to work any issues, and speeding up the RID process. No
benefit is seen from ?holding back? RIDs until the final deadline, or
until some later date.
Ø In general I think that APPROVED RIDs should remain within a
Center?agency and to be forwarded only explicitly (e.g. Button at
Center/Agency level to forward all approved RIDs).
This would change the concept. If the CESG wants this delay mechanism, we
can try to add it, but we want a clear consensus from the CESG that it
prioritizes ?synchronized delay? over ?rapid resolution of RIDs?. To
clarify?
When an originator submits to a center, nobody can see that RID except the
originator and the Center coordinator. Until the Center coordinator
selects ?FORWARD?. Then the next level will see it (immediately). If
the Center level coordinator changes his mind, and revises that RID to
?REJECT?, then it will disappear from the list of the Agency Coordinator.
The same process applies between the Agency coordinator and the
International coordinator. Nobody from other agencies can see an agency?s
RIDs until the Agency Coordinator clicks ?Forward? and then ?Save? for
that RID.
If the CESG wants this delay mechanism, it may be difficult to implement
in SharePoint. But we are asked, Brian will look at it and try. As I
said, though, we need a clear consensus from the CESG on that.
Ø We assume that the name of the Agency Review Coordinator is
configurable case by case and that delegation/addition of an additional
Review Coordinator should be easily possible within an agency
Yes. The plan is that it can only be configured by the Secretariat, on
request from the agency members in the CESG or CMC. Does the CESG need to
have the capability for you guys to configure the names of the
coordinators?
Ø Page 11 says "Review Coordinator will click on each RID and review...."
but this can be very cumbersome. A possibility for doing <send
"group/all"?
As we discussed above, this capability is difficult in SharePoint, and is
not in the current plan.
Ø On page 11 the Reviewer data are not visible and they should be
visible.
I think you?re asking for the Originator?s name to be displayed. In the
existing screen, it is listed at the bottom of the screen (but it was cut
off at Brian?s page 11). But we will look at making it more prominent at
the top of the screen by the RID title.
Ø Tools to show/print all RIDs (e.g. generate pdf Report) should be
available to facilitate the task of the review coordinator and
distribution.
PDFs are a particular problem, but we may be able to create an HTML page
that can be printed to provide the same ?hardcopy report? capability. We
will look into that. Also, remember that the whole set can be exported to
Excel to be viewed/worked when offline. (But of course, as with all other
systems, we cannot import that Excel file back into the system).
******************************
I hope those responses clarify what Brian presented. And thanks again for
such a careful review.
-=- Mike
Mike Kearney
Lead Technology Manager
Mission Operations Laboratory
NASA MSFC EO-01
+1-256-544-2029
From: Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 11:30 AM
To: CCSDS Tech Support
Subject: FW: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator page in
your Cleveland presentation (but not only)
-=- Mike
Mike Kearney
Lead Technology Manager
Mission Operations Laboratory
NASA MSFC EO-01
+1-256-544-2029
From: Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int [mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari at esa.int]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Brian Oliver
Cc: cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org; Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)
Subject: MORE COMMENTS on Document Review System ? Coordinator page in
your Cleveland presentation (but not only)
Brian,
a few more comments thanks to Mario Merri.
We assume that the name of the Agency Review Coordinator is configurable
case by case and that delegation/addition of an additional Review
Coordinator should be easily possible within an agency
Page 11 says "Review Coordinator will click on each RID and review...."
but this can be very cumbersome. A possibility for doing <send
"group/all"? should be provided in an high level view (BTW see also my
previous comment about decoupling the Agency Approval of a RID from the
official forwarding of the RID to CCSDS).
On page 11 the Reviewer data are not visible and they should be visible.
Tools to show/print all RIDs (e.g. generate pdf Report) should be
available to facilitate the task of the review coordinator and
distribution.
In need Mario and I could support a telecon with you on this matter.
Regards
Gian Paolo
----- Forwarded by Gian Paolo Calzolari/esoc/ESA on 30/11/2012 15:35 -----
From:
Gian Paolo Calzolari/esoc/ESA
To:
"CCSDS Tech Support" <ccsds_techsupport at aiaa.org>
Cc:
cesg-bounces at mailman.ccsds.org, "Kearney, Mike W. (MSFC-EO01)"
<Mike.Kearney at nasa.gov>
Date:
30/11/2012 12:14
Subject:
Document Review System ? Coordinator page in your Cleveland presentation
(but not only)
Brian,
I was just looking once more at your Cleveland presentation and I
ave a comment about the "Document Review System ? Coordinator" page 11 in
your presentation.
The Review Coordinator can see/set the Status to four values:
- Not Yet Reviewed
- Approved
- Rejected......
- Returned to Originator.......
First of all I am puzzled by the last two items looking (almost)
identical. This shall be clarified
The reference to the Disposition is also puzzling me as it looks as the
same term is used for the real WG Review as well as for internal Agency
review and this is confusing.
You mention 3 types of coordinators
- Center Coordinators
- Agency Coordinators
- International Coordinator
I would assume that the last one is actually the WG Chair that will report
the final WG decision.
In this respect I think the operations performed by the last one are
different from those performed by the other two guys.
By experience, for me the International Coordinator will normally be
able to start from a RID in state "Not Yet Reviewed" and - after WG
discussion and consensus - set it to one of the following "processed"
states.
- RID ACCEPTED as is (Disposition field can be empty)
- RID ACCEPTED WITH MODIFICATIONS (Disposition field can NOT be empty)
- RID REJECTED (Disposition field can NOT be empty)
Normally if clarifications are needed they are discussed at WG
(face2face/telecon) meetings etc.
Conversely, the Center/Agency Coordinator will normally be able to
start from a RID in state "Not Yet Reviewed" and - after Center/Agency
discussion and consensus - set it to one of the following "processed"
states.
- RID APPROVED (and TO BE sent as is to next level)
- RID APPROVED WITH MODIFICATIONS (and TO BE sent MODIFIED to next level)
- RID REJECTED (and NOT FORWARDED to next level)
I understand that "my" difference between accepted and approved is somehow
artificial :o)
If we want to allow capturing internal Center/Agency discussions you
should have a mechanism for commenting back and forth (e.g. to ask
modifications to the originator or to allow modifications to the
originator). This could allow an additional state as e.g. RID UNDER
DISCUSSION (was it your "Returned to Originator"?). In such a state there
could be the need of exchanging also comments. I think this is more
important for Center/Agency Coordinator and for sure such discussion
should not be visible to the next level.
In general I have the impression that the Review Coordinator will be able
to modify the entered RID as he likes. This is practical but it may be
give issues for changes not approved by the originator. I am just puzzled,
not proposing/rejecting anything, but it could be wise to give to the
Coordinator "a read only view" with an edit button that would allow
notifying changes to the Originator. This approach could also work for for
commenting back and forth before approving a RID.
MORE COMMENTS
Page 11 - A Review Coordinator should be able to see all the data entered
by the Originator but the snapshot shows nothing about attached files.
Page 8 - Privacy Scheme. It is not clear to me whether a given Coordinator
would be able to see a RID as soon as it is approved at previous level. I
think that sometimes this may not be so good as it can generate some
entropy. In other word I see difference between APPROVING and FORWARDING.
The approval of RIDs within a given Center/Agency can be sequential and
some new RIDs could invalidate modify some previous ones. In general I
think that APPROVED RIDs should remain within a Center?agency and to be
forwarded only explicitly (e.g. Button at Center/Agency level to forward
all approved RIDs).
I hope this input is not causing too much confusion ;o)
Regards
Gian Paolo
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