<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Gentlemen, I would very much advise the wg to stop this thread. You have been handed a very clear mandate after a lot of discussion and wrangling to which, thankfully, you have not been exposed. The SOIS wireless area now has the opportunity to develop standards which go beyond the confines of a spacecraft. If this is 1 or 10,000 metres is not important. </div><div><br></div><div>Please turn your attention to mission needs and ignore the polemics. Our role is to produce useful outputs that users will adopt because they suit their needs. There is enough space for everyone to contribute, so let's get on with the real work,</div><div><br></div><div>End of after diner lecture </div><div>//ct</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:11, Yuriy Sheynin <<a href="mailto:sheynin@aanet.ru">sheynin@aanet.ru</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Dear colleagues,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Exactly, the definition of "proximity" is crucial for reasoning about
the wireless interconnections.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And for me it has twofold point of view to the proximity: </div>
<div>1) from the point of view of applications; the discussion looks to go
mainly this way; </div>
<div>2) from the point of view of the technology.</div>
<div>As the CCSDS more adapt existing technologies than developing original
ones, the second point of view is important also when we discuss a range of
wireless technology.</div>
<div>For instance, for me the WiFi area for high-rate links or ZigBee for
low-rate define what is proximate and what is not. And a a rover traversing
several kilometers is definitely out of the range of this proximity.</div>
<div>WiFi/ZigBee area is quite enough for most onboard networking and to
overload onboard networking with technologies for 10 km doesn’t look
reasonable.</div>
<div>May be we need to define a proximity scale keeping in mind both
applications and available technology in its definition. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Yuriy </div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; mso-ansi-language: en-us" lang="EN-US"><font face="Arial">---------------------</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; mso-ansi-language: en-us" lang="EN-US"><font size="1" face="Arial">Yuriy Sheynin<br>Professor, Doctor of Science<br>Head of the Chair of
Aerospace Computer and Software Systems <br>Director of the Institute for
High-Performance Computer and Network Technologies<br>St. Petersburg State
University of Aerospace
Instrumentation<br>
67, Bolshaya Morskaya
st.<br> 190 000, St.
Petersburg<br>
RUSSIA<br><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</span>Phone/Fax: +7 812 710
6234;<br> E-mail:
</font><a href="mailto:sheynin@aanet.ru"><font color="#0000ff" size="1" face="Arial">sheynin@aanet.ru</font></a></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; mso-ansi-language: en-us" lang="EN-US"><font size="1" face="Arial"></font></span> </p>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="kevin.gifford@Colorado.EDU" href="mailto:kevin.gifford@Colorado.EDU">Kevin K Gifford</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int" href="mailto:Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int">Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int</a> ; <a title="sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org" href="mailto:sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org">sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org</a> ; <a title="chris.taylor@esa.int" href="mailto:chris.taylor@esa.int">chris.taylor@esa.int</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between SOIS Wireless and
SLSPlacom working groups</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">Chris - </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">Thank you very much for your assistance in this
regard. The CESG clarification is timely and needed.</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">I have one observation which might become
relevant. Regarding the agreement for SOIS that:</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div> <font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">"SOIS
Responsibilities include: A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial
wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or
habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or
habitat"</font></div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">There may be some debate over the exact
definition of "proximity", e.g., how far from a planetary wireless
infrastructure point. I'm thinking of the "golden scenario" of a rover
traversing several kilometers from a planetary surface infrastructure
point. I think (stating my view, not committing anyone else) that
planetary surface communication networks and infrastructure (e.g., surface
communications networks) are the domain of SOIS and anything space-to-ground is
SLS.</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">The argument that I would like to avoid is:
"Well, the rover is X km from the habitat so the communications link is the
responsibility of SLS, even though the communications are all over the ground
network." </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">I'm probably being somewhat anal, but we've gone
round-and-round with Jean-Luc Gerner in this regard previously. I guess we
can cross this bridge if/when we come to it.</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">Thanks again Chris, very much appreciated.</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">Kevin </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"> </div><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)" id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </span>"<a href="mailto:Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int">Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int">Jean-Francois.Dufour@esa.int</a>><br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:36
AM<br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </span>"<a href="mailto:sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org">sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org">sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </span>[Sois-wir] CCSDS: Agreement between
SOIS Wireless and SLS Placom working groups<br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Dear Colleagues,</font> <br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Please take note of the agreement below between CCSDS
SOIS-Wireless and the PLACOM group.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Regards,</font> <br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Jean-Francois Dufour</font> <br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Chairman of the CCSDS SOIS Wireless Working
Group</font><br><br><br><br><font color="#800080" size="1" face="sans-serif">-----
Forwarded by Chris Taylor/estec/ESA on 22/10/2014 14:19
-----</font><br><br><font color="#5f5f5f" size="1" face="sans-serif">From: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a></font><br><font color="#5f5f5f" size="1" face="sans-serif">To: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"CCSDS CESG --" <<a href="mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>,
</font><br><font color="#5f5f5f" size="1" face="sans-serif">Date: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">21/10/2014 18:01</font><br><font color="#5f5f5f" size="1" face="sans-serif">Subject: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">[CESG] Nuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum (from SOIS and
SLS)</font><br><font color="#5f5f5f" size="1" face="sans-serif">Sent
by: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a href="mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a></font><br>
<hr noshade="">
<br><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Dear All,</font><font size="3">
</font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br> I
would like to inform you that, with respect to the overlap issue discussed in
the CESG, today SOIS and SLS Area have agreed today the following split of
responsibilities:</font><font size="3"><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>__________________</font><font size="3"> </font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>SLS Responsibilities include:<br>1) point-to-point links for
Planetary Communications<br>2) multi-point links for Planetary Communications
utilising CCSDS data link and physical layer protocols<br>3) consideration of
usage of Radio Frequency bands over space-ground and space-space links
</font><font size="3"><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>SLS can
therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for Planetary Communications, as
well as functional & performance requirements and develop the pertinent
Standards (Magenta or Blue Books) according to the points 1..3 listed
above.</font><font size="3"><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>SOIS
Responsibilities include:<br>A) networked multi-point links utilising commercial
wireless network technologies for Communications onboard a space vehicle or
habitat and/or surface links within the proximity of that vehicle or
habitat.<br>B) cooperation with the SLS Area for matters related to usage of
Radio Frequency bands </font><font size="3"><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>SOIS can therefore define mission scenarios/profiles for
Vehicle and vicinity Communications, as well as functional & performance
requirements and develop the pertinent Standards (Magenta or Blue Books)
according to the points A..B listed above.</font><font size="3"><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>Charters and CWE Projects of
the affected WGs in SLS and SOIS Areas are to be made consistent with the above
set of responsibilities (if not consistent
now).<br>__________________</font><font size="3"> <br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>Best regards to you all and my particular thanks to Chris
and Gilles for the pro active collaboration.</font><font size="3"><br><br></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>Gian Paolo</font><font size="3"> </font><br><pre>This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
</pre></div></div></span>
<p>
</p><hr>
_______________________________________________<br>Sois-wir mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org">Sois-wir@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir">http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-wir</a><br></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote><PRE>This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
</PRE></body></html>