From Stuart.Fowell at scisys.co.uk Tue Jun 3 09:54:37 2008 From: Stuart.Fowell at scisys.co.uk (Stuart Fowell) Date: Tue Jun 3 09:16:27 2008 Subject: [Sois-app] RE: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] References: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181EC9B72E@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181EC9B7A5@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Message-ID: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181ED526D7@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SOIS Plug-and-Play DASIA 2008.ppt Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 1280512 bytes Desc: SOIS Plug-and-Play DASIA 2008.ppt Url : http://mailman.ccsds.org/pipermail/sois-app/attachments/20080603/cc2485a8/SOISPlug-and-PlayDASIA2008-0001.ppt From Stuart.Fowell at scisys.co.uk Tue Jun 3 10:02:10 2008 From: Stuart.Fowell at scisys.co.uk (Stuart Fowell) Date: Tue Jun 3 09:24:32 2008 Subject: FW: [SOIS] RE: [Sois-app] Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (29 April 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] Message-ID: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181ED526DF@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ SOIS mailing list SOIS@mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/mailman/listinfo/sois -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ SOIS mailing list SOIS@mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/mailman/listinfo/sois From Jane.Marquart at nasa.gov Tue Jun 3 10:23:41 2008 From: Jane.Marquart at nasa.gov (Jane Marquart) Date: Tue Jun 3 09:41:07 2008 Subject: [Sois-app] Re: [SOIS] RE: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] In-Reply-To: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181ED526D7@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Message-ID: Stuart, Chris, Please remember that NASA did not sign up for the Blue Book route shown on Slide 4. Our agreement was that SOIS books would be Magenta. Jane On 6/3/08 9:54 AM, "Stuart Fowell" wrote: > Please find attached a presentation I made last week on SOIS Plug-and-Play at > the Data System In Aerospace 2008 (DASIA 2008) conference. The paper to go > with it will be completed by Friday 6th June. > > Please be reminded about today telecon... > > Regards, > > Stuart > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS > Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant > SciSys UK Ltd > Clothier Road > Bristol > BS4 5SS > UK > > Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 > Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 > Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 > Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk > Website: www.scisys.co.uk > > This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in > error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this > communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited > therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the > contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. > Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you > must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading > e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in > this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. > > > > From: Stuart Fowell > Sent: 19 May 2008 15:56 > To: Stuart Fowell; 'sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org'; 'sois@mailman.ccsds.org' > Cc: 'Lyke, James C Civ USAF AFMC AFRL/RVSE'; > 'Francisco.Tortosa.Lopez@esa.int'; 'Ramon Krosley' > Subject: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] > > Because of the unavailability of key players in the SOIS Plug-and-Play BoF for > tomorrow's teleconference (Glenn, Kevin and myself), I'm unfortunately having > to postpone the teleconference. > > We need to make sure we don't loose momentum. I'd like to suggest the date be > moved to Tuesday 3rd June. Can you all let me know you're availability for > this date and we'll see if there is sufficient numbers. > > Regards, > > Stuart > > Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS > Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant > SciSys UK Ltd > Clothier Road > Bristol > BS4 5SS > UK > > Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 > Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 > Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 > Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk > Website: www.scisys.co.uk > > This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in > error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this > communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited > therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the > contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. > Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you > must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading > e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in > this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. > > > > From: Stuart Fowell > Sent: 30 April 2008 10:43 > To: 'sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org'; 'sois@mailman.ccsds.org' > Cc: 'Lyke, James C Civ USAF AFMC AFRL/RVSE'; > 'Francisco.Tortosa.Lopez@esa.int'; 'Ramon Krosley' > Subject: RE: [Sois-app] Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (29 April 2008 @ 11:00am > EDT[GMT-5] > > Dear all, > > To summarise yesterday's telecon (if you have any comments/additions please > don't hold back in letting us know!): > > The SOIS Device Reference Plug-and-Play architecture can be split into two > parts: > 1. Device discovery > 2. Service discovery > > Device Discovery > > Taking the Plug-and-Play Technologies Comparison spreadsheet from Kevin > Gifford together with the additions from Max Ciccone (1553), Francisco Tortosa > (CAN) and Stuart Fowell(SpaceWire) we have a fairly comprehensive survey of > the device discovery capabilities of the different subnetwork types we are > addressing. Jim Lyke identified that there may be other subnetwork types > (optical and combined data&power). > > However, in general the mechanisms for device discovery "are do-able". Kevin > re-iterated that it is time for prototyping. > > Stuart Fowell intends now to add the information from the spreadsheet + > additions to the Concept Paper. This should be ready for review by the next > telecon (work load pending!). > > Max Ciccone and Francisco Tortosa offered to write up a more comprehensive > section for the Concept Paper describing CAN Plug-and-Play capabilities. > > Service Discovery > > Jim Lyke introduced the issue of the data ontology, e.g. within xTEDS there > are issues with different naming & interpretation for the same parameters. > What is required is a Spacecraft Device Ontology so as to allow plug-and-play > between different devices from different manufacturers. > > Stuart Fowell described how in the SOIS architecture the Device Virtualisation > Service was intended to provide the mapping between a generic service > interface for classes of devices and the individual device interfaces, > including differing protocols to access data and data interpretation into > standard units (XXXXX). Stuart Fowell mentioned the SSDHI standard that made a > first attempt to catalogue the different classes of device and a generic > service interface for each (the SSDHI standard was then emailed to the > sois-app mailing list). > > Jim Lyke also introduced the management of access to devices: > 1. security - especially with multi-user missions > 2. versioning > 3. provisioning - directories?, what services are available on which > devices > > Glenn Rakow offered to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept > Paper describing the SpaceWire Plug-and-Play efforts, in particular with > regard to the Service Discovery mechanisms. > > Ray Krosley has written a paper summarising experience from ARFL. He will > distribute this for discussion at the next telecon. > > Device and Flight Computer Plug-and-Play Capabilities > > Jim Lyke said from his work at AFRL, they had identified 4 levels of device > performance, with several tiers of PnP performance consistent with the level > of devices. This means that simple devices will not have full xTEDS but may > have simple device class and type information that can be read. > > Stuart Fowell said that he was concerned that the different levels of onboard > processing must also be taken into account - ranging from relatively simple > satellites through to Lunar Habitats! For example, a full XML interpreter for > dynamic xTEDS interpretation can be too heavyweight for a large number of > missions. (This has been previously identified as well.) > > Roadmap > > Glenn Rakow introduced the need to define a roadmap for continuing this work, > esp. with regard to Service Discovery, with Ray Krosley's paper being the > starting point. > > Kevin Gifford strongly supported this, reminding us that the remit for CCSDS > is the member National Space Agencies. He suggested that the roadmap should be > iterated with NASA, ESA and BNSC (the agencies directly involved in PnP) to > ensure that: > it is realistic > it meets agency needs > it has appropriate resources. > > Open Issues not addressed at telecon > > 1. Key author of Service Discovery roadmap > 2. Key author of Device and Flight Computer Plug-and-Play Capabilities section > for Concept Paper > > Schedule > > 1. Stuart Fowell to write up Plug-and-Play Technologies Comparison spreadsheet > into section of Concept Paper > 2. Glenn Rakow to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept Paper > describing the SpaceWire Plug-and-Play efforts, in particular with regard to > the Service Discovery mechanisms. > 3. Max Ciccone and Francisco Tortosa to write up a more comprehensive section > for the Concept Paper describing CAN Plug-and-Play capabilities. > 4. All to review Ray Krosley's paper. > 5. All to consider as to who might volunteer the Open Issues > 6. Next telecon on 20th May - agenda: > 1. Service Discovery > Short talk organised by Ray Krosley on AFRL Device Discovery > work, esp. w.r.t. Service Discovery > Discuss Ray Krosley's paper > 2. Roadmap > 3. Any feedback on new sections for Concept Paper (technologies > comparison, SpaceWire service discovery, CAN plug-and-play) > > Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS > Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant > SciSys UK Ltd > Clothier Road > Bristol > BS4 5SS > UK > > Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 > Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 > Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 > Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk > Website: www.scisys.co.uk > > This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in > error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this > communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited > therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the > contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. > Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you > must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading > e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in > this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. > > > > From: sois-app-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org > [mailto:sois-app-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Rakow, Glenn P. > (GSFC-561.0) > Sent: 18 April 2008 22:47 > To: sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org; sois@mailman.ccsds.org > Subject: [Sois-app] Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (29 April 2008 @ 11:00am > EDT[GMT-5] > > This is the announcement for the next teleconference. Info below: > > Please someone send this to Ramon Krosley. Don?t have his contact info. > Glenn > > Call in number: 866-676-7914 > Passcode: 3684771 > > > _______________________________________________ > SOIS mailing list > SOIS@mailman.ccsds.org > http://mailman.ccsds.org/mailman/listinfo/sois -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ccsds.org/pipermail/sois-app/attachments/20080603/03c3a99d/attachment.html From Massimiliano.Ciccone at esa.int Tue Jun 3 10:39:53 2008 From: Massimiliano.Ciccone at esa.int (Massimiliano.Ciccone@esa.int) Date: Tue Jun 3 10:04:39 2008 Subject: [Sois-app] RE: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] In-Reply-To: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181ED526D7@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Message-ID: What is the call-in number for the teleconf ? cheers Max "Stuart Fowell" To Sent by: "Stuart Fowell" sois-app-bounces@m , ailman.ccsds.org , cc 03/06/2008 15:54 "Lyke, James C Civ USAF AFMC AFRL/RVSE" , Francisco.Tortosa.Lopez@esa.int Subject [Sois-app] RE: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] Please find attached a presentation I made last week on SOIS Plug-and-Play at the Data System In Aerospace 2008 (DASIA 2008) conference. The paper to go with it will be completed by Friday 6th June. Please be reminded about today telecon... Regards, Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------- Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant SciSys UK Ltd Clothier Road Bristol BS4 5SS UK Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk Website: www.scisys.co.uk This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. From: Stuart Fowell Sent: 19 May 2008 15:56 To: Stuart Fowell; 'sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org'; 'sois@mailman.ccsds.org' Cc: 'Lyke, James C Civ USAF AFMC AFRL/RVSE'; 'Francisco.Tortosa.Lopez@esa.int'; 'Ramon Krosley' Subject: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] Because of the unavailability of key players in the SOIS Plug-and-Play BoF for tomorrow's teleconference (Glenn, Kevin and myself), I'm unfortunately having to postpone the teleconference. We need to make sure we don't loose momentum. I'd like to suggest the date be moved to Tuesday 3rd June. Can you all let me know you're availability for this date and we'll see if there is sufficient numbers. Regards, Stuart Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant SciSys UK Ltd Clothier Road Bristol BS4 5SS UK Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk Website: www.scisys.co.uk This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. From: Stuart Fowell Sent: 30 April 2008 10:43 To: 'sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org'; 'sois@mailman.ccsds.org' Cc: 'Lyke, James C Civ USAF AFMC AFRL/RVSE'; 'Francisco.Tortosa.Lopez@esa.int'; 'Ramon Krosley' Subject: RE: [Sois-app] Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (29 April 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] Dear all, To summarise yesterday's telecon (if you have any comments/additions please don't hold back in letting us know!): The SOIS Device Reference Plug-and-Play architecture can be split into two parts: 1. Device discovery 2. Service discovery Device Discovery Taking the Plug-and-Play Technologies Comparison spreadsheet from Kevin Gifford together with the additions from Max Ciccone (1553), Francisco Tortosa (CAN) and Stuart Fowell(SpaceWire) we have a fairly comprehensive survey of the device discovery capabilities of the different subnetwork types we are addressing. Jim Lyke identified that there may be other subnetwork types (optical and combined data&power). However, in general the mechanisms for device discovery "are do-able". Kevin re-iterated that it is time for prototyping. Stuart Fowell intends now to add the information from the spreadsheet + additions to the Concept Paper. This should be ready for review by the next telecon (work load pending!). Max Ciccone and Francisco Tortosa offered to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept Paper describing CAN Plug-and-Play capabilities. Service Discovery Jim Lyke introduced the issue of the data ontology, e.g. within xTEDS there are issues with different naming & interpretation for the same parameters. What is required is a Spacecraft Device Ontology so as to allow plug-and-play between different devices from different manufacturers. Stuart Fowell described how in the SOIS architecture the Device Virtualisation Service was intended to provide the mapping between a generic service interface for classes of devices and the individual device interfaces, including differing protocols to access data and data interpretation into standard units (XXXXX). Stuart Fowell mentioned the SSDHI standard that made a first attempt to catalogue the different classes of device and a generic service interface for each (the SSDHI standard was then emailed to the sois-app mailing list). Jim Lyke also introduced the management of access to devices: 1. security - especially with multi-user missions 2. versioning 3. provisioning - directories?, what services are available on which devices Glenn Rakow offered to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept Paper describing the SpaceWire Plug-and-Play efforts, in particular with regard to the Service Discovery mechanisms. Ray Krosley has written a paper summarising experience from ARFL. He will distribute this for discussion at the next telecon. Device and Flight Computer Plug-and-Play Capabilities Jim Lyke said from his work at AFRL, they had identified 4 levels of device performance, with several tiers of PnP performance consistent with the level of devices. This means that simple devices will not have full xTEDS but may have simple device class and type information that can be read. Stuart Fowell said that he was concerned that the different levels of onboard processing must also be taken into account - ranging from relatively simple satellites through to Lunar Habitats! For example, a full XML interpreter for dynamic xTEDS interpretation can be too heavyweight for a large number of missions. (This has been previously identified as well.) Roadmap Glenn Rakow introduced the need to define a roadmap for continuing this work, esp. with regard to Service Discovery, with Ray Krosley's paper being the starting point. Kevin Gifford strongly supported this, reminding us that the remit for CCSDS is the member National Space Agencies. He suggested that the roadmap should be iterated with NASA, ESA and BNSC (the agencies directly involved in PnP) to ensure that: it is realistic it meets agency needs it has appropriate resources. Open Issues not addressed at telecon 1. Key author of Service Discovery roadmap 2. Key author of Device and Flight Computer Plug-and-Play Capabilities section for Concept Paper Schedule 1. Stuart Fowell to write up Plug-and-Play Technologies Comparison spreadsheet into section of Concept Paper 2. Glenn Rakow to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept Paper describing the SpaceWire Plug-and-Play efforts, in particular with regard to the Service Discovery mechanisms. 3. Max Ciccone and Francisco Tortosa to write up a more comprehensive section for the Concept Paper describing CAN Plug-and-Play capabilities. 4. All to review Ray Krosley's paper. 5. All to consider as to who might volunteer the Open Issues 6. Next telecon on 20th May - agenda: 1. Service Discovery Short talk organised by Ray Krosley on AFRL Device Discovery work, esp. w.r.t. Service Discovery Discuss Ray Krosley's paper 2. Roadmap 3. Any feedback on new sections for Concept Paper (technologies comparison, SpaceWire service discovery, CAN plug-and-play) Stuart D. Fowell BEng MBCS Distributed, Real-Time Embedded (DRE) Consultant SciSys UK Ltd Clothier Road Bristol BS4 5SS UK Tel: +44 (0)117 916 5165 Mob: +44 (0)7715 750 255 Fax: +44 (0)119 916 5299 Email: stuart.fowell@scisys.co.uk Website: www.scisys.co.uk This message is private and confidential. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. SciSys UK Limited therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Whilst SciSys UK Limited take reasonable precautions to minimise risk, you must carry out your own virus checks before opening attachments or reading e-mails and SciSys UK Ltd does not accept liability for any damage or loss in this respect. Contracts cannot be concluded with SciSys UK Limited by email. From: sois-app-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org [mailto:sois-app-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org] On Behalf Of Rakow, Glenn P. (GSFC-561.0) Sent: 18 April 2008 22:47 To: sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org; sois@mailman.ccsds.org Subject: [Sois-app] Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (29 April 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] This is the announcement for the next teleconference. Info below: Please someone send this to Ramon Krosley. Don?t have his contact info. Glenn Call in number: 866-676-7914 Passcode: 3684771(See attached file: SOIS Plug-and-Play DASIA 2008.ppt)_______________________________________________ Sois-app mailing list Sois-app@mailman.ccsds.org http://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sois-app -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: =?UTF-8?B?U09JUyBQbHVnLWFuZC1QbGF5IERBU0lBIDIwMDgucHB0?= Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint Size: 1280512 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ccsds.org/pipermail/sois-app/attachments/20080603/1e0382f1/UTF-8BU09JUyBQbHVnLWFuZC1QbGF5IERBU0lBIDIwMDgucHB0-0001.pwz From adrian.j.hooke at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 3 11:48:18 2008 From: adrian.j.hooke at jpl.nasa.gov (Adrian J. Hooke) Date: Tue Jun 3 11:09:39 2008 Subject: [Sois-app] Re: [SOIS] RE: Next CCSDS SOIS PnP Telecon (20 May 2008 @ 11:00am EDT[GMT-5] In-Reply-To: References: <3258DBDEDE979E4DBEEC0565338E181ED526D7@mx-bri-exch0.scisys.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20080603114527.02ca0e98@mail.jpl.nasa.gov> At 10:23 AM 6/3/2008, Jane Marquart wrote: >Please remember that NASA did not sign up for the Blue Book route >shown on Slide 4. Our agreement was that SOIS books would be Magenta. Jane is correct. The statement on slide 4 should read as follows: "The first set of standards have been reviewed by the various Space Agencies and are now available as Red Books and awaiting prototyping before publication as Blue Magenta Books. ///adrian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ccsds.org/pipermail/sois-app/attachments/20080603/6d6206c7/attachment.html