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Sounds like it. Thanks for the confirmation.
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<div>I would like us to have a decent registry spec in the update. Something better than a “wave of the hands”. It does not need to be a full DBMS data model, but ought to be clear about what is intended and the kinds of info it ought to contain. </div>
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<div>If you are all ok with what I “sketched out”, can we just fill it out a little and document it? We can leave the “engineering” of this to the SANA operator as long as we’re clear about what we want.</div>
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<div>Ok?</div>
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<div>Thanks, Peter <br>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from Peter's JPL iPhone X
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<div>Everything should be made as simple as possible, </div>
<div>but not simpler. </div>
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<div>~Albert Einstein</div>
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On Mar 1, 2019, at 11:01 AM, "<a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a>" <<a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Peter,</span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif"> I think we are both right.</span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">My text referred to the modifications to the document; i.e. the only change caused by this approach would be one sentence in the SPP book to inform about the existence of a SANA Registry for secondary headers.</span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Your text is closer to the formal specification.</span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">About using the present or the future for the verb tense, it is possible that at book publication time the present tense will be more appropriate (hopefully).</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">As you see, my accent was on a change in the book that requires no change to PUS.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I hope we are aligned now.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Ciao</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Gippo</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">From: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <<a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov">Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">To: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"<a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a>" <<a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a>>,
"SLS-SLP Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Cc: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"Greenberg, Edward (312B)" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov">Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "Jonathan
Wilmot" <<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a>>, Lee Pitts <<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</a>>, "Burleigh, Scott C (312B)" <<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Date: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">01-03-19 16:27</span>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Subject: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span>
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<hr noshade="">
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<br>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Hi Gippo,</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">At the risk of having us not (quite) agree on this, I think you stated something different in your item A) than what I intended. You said:</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<br>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">A. </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">The secondary header section is SPP will inform that a number of secondary-header-types are registered with SANA and the actual contents of
the secondary header are (somehow) "managed" at <b>SPP service user</b> level (Note 1)</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">If we are not going to break existing uses or the SPP secondary header, then I think this statement must read like this:</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">A) The secondary header
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;color:red;font-family:Arial">flag in </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">SPP will inform that a secondary
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;color:red;font-family:Arial">header is in use</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">. </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;color:red;font-family:Arial">A number
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">of secondary-header-types </span>
<span style=" font-size:10pt;color:red;font-family:Arial">will be </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">registered with SANA and the actual contents of the secondary header are (somehow) "managed" at
<b>SPP service user</b> level (Note 1)</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Your wording suggested that the secondary header section
</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;color:red;font-family:Calibri">itself </span>
<span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">would signal that there are a number of secondary header types. In order to do that we would have to all adopt some new secondary header format that had such an "I am using secondary header type = 3" field.
Right now the SPP itself, and the current users of SPP do not include such a field. So this would "break" those uses, including the SPP nominal one, the PUS, and the JPL uses. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">I suggested that we could potentially create a new "standard" SPP secondary header that had such a field, but was not proposing that we force this change on existing
users.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Can you accept that? As one of the ESA members I would be surprised if you would accept a change that required a modification of PUS.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Regards, Peter</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><b>From:
</b>Gian Paolo Calzolari <<a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a>><b><br>
Date: </b>Friday, March 1, 2019 at 3:21 AM<b><br>
To: </b>SLS-SLP Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><b><br>
Cc: </b>"Greenberg, Edward" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov">Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a>>, Lee Pitts <<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</a>>,
Scott Burleigh <<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Peter Shames <<a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov">Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Dear,</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
after so many e-mail I would like to make the point of the situation (as far as I understand it) with the caveat that there shall be something wrong in this story as it looks that Peter and I agree on something. :o)</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
The envisaged approach by Peter is that</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
A) The secondary header section is SPP will inform that a number of secondary-header-types are registered with SANA and the actual contents of the secondary header are (somehow) "managed" at
<b>SPP service user</b> level (Note 1)</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
B) Secondary Header Types will be registered in SANA with </span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">a two level approach :
<br>
1. A registry for each SPP secondary header that is registered, with org, contact person, name of the project, and a pointer to the documentation
<br>
2. An XML schema (or JSON, your choice) that formalizes the secondary header structure, field names, data types, sizes, and definitions
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b><br>
Is this the common understanding for everybody?</b></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
Best regards and have a nice week end</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
Gian Paolo</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> <br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
Note1: In fact the service user of the SPP Packet Service provides the SPP service provider with a "pre cooked" space packet in the PACKET.request while the service user of the SPP Octet String Service provides the SPP service provider with a "pre cooked"
space packet data field and a Secondary Header Indicator in the OCTET_STRING.request</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
From: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">"Shames, Peter M \(312B\) via SLS-SLP" <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
To: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">Jonathan Wilmot <<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a>>, "Burleigh, Scott C (312B)" <<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>,
"Greenberg, Edward (312B)" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov">Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Cc: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">Lee Pitts <<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</a>></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Date: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">28-02-19 17:13</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Subject: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Sent by: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">"SLS-SLP" <<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span></p>
<div align="center">
<hr noshade="">
</div>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:240px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Hi Jonathan,</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I think you missed my point. There are existing SPP secondary header formats that are already in use. The ESA has PUS, the CCSDS MAL has theirs (not in wide use, but defined), and JPL
has "standard" ways of using the SPP secondary header to transmit time codes. This last is a sort of "CCSDS standard" in that it is recommended, but not required, in the SPP spec.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman"><b>4.1.3.2.1.5 </b>If present, the Packet Secondary Header shall consist of either:</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman">a) a Time Code Field (variable length) only;</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman">b) an Ancillary Data Field (variable length) only; or</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman">c) a Time Code Field followed by an Ancillary Data Field.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I believe you must accept this, and suggest that trying to change it at this point will doom you to failure. There will surely be ESA feedback.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I will point out, however, that ESA effectively adopted option b) for the MAL SPP mapping, and that contains a "Version Number" in the first field of the Secondary Header. I have not
looked to see if that is sufficiently general that it could be co-opted for this purpose.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Peter</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From:
</b>SLS-SLP <<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><b><br>
Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a>><b><br>
Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 8:00 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Peter Shames <<a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov">Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Scott Burleigh <<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "Greenberg, Edward" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov">Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><b><br>
Cc: </b>Lee Pitts <<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</a>><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Peter,<br>
<br>
I understand that "managed" will be the initial approach similar to the compromise for spacecraft ID's being only unique within an assigned spectrum. Something we can do now is maybe have a version indication in the first byte(s) of the secondary header. And
although I hate to say it, maybe even use an SDNV?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:51 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:</span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Hi Jonathan,</span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I get that you would like this, but that would mean changing all of the existing header structures that are already in wide use. I think what we should do it to treat this like a "managed parameter"
where you have to know which of the formats you are processing.</span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">That said, for any new / future formats you could certainly include some sort of standard "secondary header type" flag, but for current ones I think you must accept the "managed" approach. Otherwise
this will never get off the ground.</span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Peter</span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="D+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>SLS-SLP
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" </span><a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:43 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Peter Shames </span><a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, Scott Burleigh
</span><a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, "Greenberg, Edward"
</span><a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">,
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u>"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Cc: </b>Lee Pitts </span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Peter,<br>
<br>
If we have agreement I will start rapidly moving in that direction. The schema will be the SOIS EDS and SOIS DoT. For true interoperability I think we need something in the headers that indicate which one of the secondary headers is being used so it can
be parsed at run-time.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:36 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Hi Jonathan,</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">If there is a DEM to SPP mapping that uses the standard SPP headers and adds the DEM as a packet secondary header that would be entirely suitable.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I'd like to encourage something like a two level approach to this:</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"><br>
1. A registry for each SPP secondary header that is registered, with org, contact person, name of the project, and a pointer to the documentation
<br>
2. An XML schema (or JSON, your choice) that formalizes the secondary header structure, field names, data types, sizes, and definitions
</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">That way people can look it up, understand it, know where to find more info, etc. And, as I suggested, using the DoT would lend a certain regularity to the typing of the data.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Does his make sense to you guys? </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Thanks, Peter</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>SLS-SLP </span>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" </span><a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:28 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Peter Shames </span><a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, Scott Burleigh
</span><a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, "Greenberg, Edward"
</span><a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">,
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u>"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Cc: </b>Lee Pitts </span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Peter and folks<br>
<br>
I agree with Peter's approach and would welcome moving forward with this. Hopefully before the missions finalize their implementation.
<br>
<br>
As I remember, the DEM did not adopt the SPP format but they did contain the same type of meta data that ECSS-PUS and the SPP proposal contain. The mapping between the Orion DEM and the SPP proposal format has been done and is in use at JSC for the LOP-G
prototyping efforts. <br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:14 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Folks,</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">What we have proposed in the SPP revision is to create a SANA registry for local, agency, or even multi-agency packet secondary headers. This could include PUS, MAL packet mapping, Jonathan's LOP-G
headers, and others. There is a proposal for a simple registry structure in the draft SPP doc that would allow all of these to be registered. I suggest that you look at this and propose any needed metadata for the registry. You could try and engage in some
sort of "normalization" effort for the field names, structures, and contents, or at least try and do some sort of evaluation of the kinds of data and the different ways they are named and represented. I'll bet you will find that they are all over the map.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">By the way, the SOIS Dictionary of Terms (DoT) may prove to be useful as a source of standardized terms.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Lastly, as I recall the Constellation DEM did not adhere to the SPP at all. I may be mis-remembering.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Cheers, Peter</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>SLS-SLP </span>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" </span><a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:03 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Scott Burleigh </span><a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, "Greenberg, Edward"
</span><a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">,
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u>"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">
</span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Cc: </b>Peter Shames </span><a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">, Lee Pitts
</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Ed, Scott,<br>
<br>
The CCSDS Space Packet is being used at NASA, ESA and CAST as end user application command and telemetry message. It contains information in the primary and secondary headers to allow end user applications to identify the data content and format, and also
allow mission architecture specific lower layers to transport user application data within a subnetworks or across networks.
<br>
<br>
As part of this discussion I would like to re-submit a proposal to create a secondary header that could be included as an optional header in the SPP Blue book or registered in SANA as a standard SPP secondary header type. (ECSS-PUS headers should also be registered)<br>
<br>
Note: The LOP-G program, and other missions at JSC, GSFC, and ARC, are currently using the format in the attached proposal. This is an opportunity for CCSDS to improve mission interoperability by supporting the SPP uses cases that missions require.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
Jonathan Wilmot<br>
NASA/GSFC<br>
CCSDS SOIS Area Director<br>
<br>
On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Burleigh, Scott C (312B) wrote:</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Ed, I think of the Space Packet as being the thing that the old Constellation project called a Data Exchange Message (DEM). I think it performs the same function in the stack, and I suspect that it
could easily carry all the same metadata that the DEM was supposed to carry.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Scott</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From:</b> Greenberg, Edward (312B)
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:37 AM<b><br>
To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u>sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">;
</span><a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u>Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Cc:</b> Lee Pitts </span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b><br>
Subject:</b> Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol</span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">There seems to be lots of new Use Cases for Space Packets then were considered in the original specification. For example:</span></p>
<p style="³zÙ๒zÙ■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">· ESA has PUS
</span></p>
<p style="á Ð■+o;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">· Space Station has its own secondary header
</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">· Orion is looking for a secondary header
</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Originally the Space Packet was an envelope for data transferred over single link (includes tunneling), now the packet is being looked at for network data transfer, local onboard data transfer (including
measurement broadcasting). </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">It is possible that the role of the packet might change with the use of DTN bundles.</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Just to take the broadest view: We currently have two forms of packets, should there be more or should even these be examined to determine if they should be blended into a new packet design. </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Can we get each of you to send in your present and possibly desired Use Cases for our beloved Space Packet so that we could determine its future.
</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:240px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><br>
</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><br>
</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><br>
</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><br>
</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Courier New"><br>
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