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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Peter,<br>
<br>
I understand that "managed" will be the initial approach
similar to the compromise for spacecraft ID's being only unique
within an assigned spectrum. Something we can do now is maybe have
a version indication in the first byte(s) of the secondary header.
And although I hate to say it, maybe even use an SDNV?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:51 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I get that you would like this, but that
would mean changing all of the existing header structures that
are already in wide use. I think what we should do it to
treat this like a "managed parameter" where you have to know
which of the formats you are processing.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That said, for any new / future formats you
could certainly include some sort of standard "secondary
header type" flag, but for current ones I think you must
accept the "managed" approach. Otherwise this will never get
off the ground.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:
</span></b><span>SLS-SLP
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a> on behalf of
Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"><Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:43 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, Scott Burleigh
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, "Greenberg, Edward"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Lee Pitts <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space
Packet Protocol</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter,<br>
<br>
If we have agreement I will start rapidly moving in that
direction. The schema will be the SOIS EDS and SOIS DoT.
For true interoperability I think we need something in the
headers that indicate which one of the secondary headers is
being used so it can be parsed at run-time.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:36 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
If there is a DEM to SPP mapping that uses the standard
SPP headers and adds the DEM as a packet secondary header
that would be entirely suitable.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
I'd like to encourage something like a two level approach
to this:</p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph">
<span>1.<span>
</span></span>A registry for each SPP secondary header
that is registered, with org, contact person, name of the
project, and a pointer to the documentation
</p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph">
<span>2.<span>
</span></span>An XML schema (or JSON, your choice) that
formalizes the secondary header structure, field names,
data types, sizes, and definitions
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
That way people can look it up, understand it, know where
to find more info, etc. And, as I suggested, using the
DoT would lend a certain regularity to the typing of the
data.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Does his make sense to you guys? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Thanks, Peter</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b>From: </b>SLS-SLP <a
href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a>
on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <a
href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <a
href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
Scott Burleigh
<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
"Greenberg, Edward"
<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Lee Pitts <a
href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of
Space Packet Protocol</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Peter and folks<br>
<br>
I agree with Peter's approach and would welcome
moving forward with this. Hopefully before the missions
finalize their implementation.
<br>
<br>
As I remember, the DEM did not adopt the SPP format
but they did contain the same type of meta data that
ECSS-PUS and the SPP proposal contain. The mapping
between the Orion DEM and the SPP proposal format has
been done and is in use at JSC for the LOP-G prototyping
efforts. <br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:14 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Folks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
What we have proposed in the SPP revision is to create
a SANA registry for local, agency, or even
multi-agency packet secondary headers. This could
include PUS, MAL packet mapping, Jonathan's LOP-G
headers, and others. There is a proposal for a simple
registry structure in the draft SPP doc that would
allow all of these to be registered. I suggest that
you look at this and propose any needed metadata for
the registry. You could try and engage in some sort
of "normalization" effort for the field names,
structures, and contents, or at least try and do some
sort of evaluation of the kinds of data and the
different ways they are named and represented. I'll
bet you will find that they are all over the map.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
By the way, the SOIS Dictionary of Terms (DoT) may
prove to be useful as a source of standardized terms.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Lastly, as I recall the Constellation DEM did not
adhere to the SPP at all. I may be mis-remembering.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Cheers, Peter</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b>From: </b>SLS-SLP <a
href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a>
on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)"
<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:03 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Scott Burleigh <a
href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
"Greenberg, Edward"
<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Peter Shames <a
href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
Lee Pitts
<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of
Space Packet Protocol</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Ed, Scott,<br>
<br>
The CCSDS Space Packet is being used at NASA, ESA
and CAST as end user application command and
telemetry message. It contains information in the
primary and secondary headers to allow end user
applications to identify the data content and
format, and also allow mission architecture specific
lower layers to transport user application data
within a subnetworks or across networks.
<br>
<br>
As part of this discussion I would like to
re-submit a proposal to create a secondary header
that could be included as an optional header in the
SPP Blue book or registered in SANA as a standard
SPP secondary header type. (ECSS-PUS headers should
also be registered)<br>
<br>
Note: The LOP-G program, and other missions at
JSC, GSFC, and ARC, are currently using the format
in the attached proposal. This is an opportunity
for CCSDS to improve mission interoperability by
supporting the SPP uses cases that missions require.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
Jonathan Wilmot<br>
NASA/GSFC<br>
CCSDS SOIS Area Director<br>
<br>
On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Burleigh, Scott C (312B)
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Ed, I think of the Space Packet as being the thing
that the old Constellation project called a Data
Exchange Message (DEM). I think it performs the
same function in the stack, and I suspect that it
could easily carry all the same metadata that the
DEM was supposed to carry.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Scott</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b>From:</b> Greenberg, Edward (312B) <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Lee Pitts <a
href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"
moz-do-not-send="true"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Call for Use Cases of Space
Packet Protocol</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
There seems to be lots of new Use Cases for Space
Packets then were considered in the original
specification. For example:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
· ESA has PUS </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
· Space Station has its own secondary
header </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
· Orion is looking for a secondary header
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Originally the Space Packet was an envelope for
data transferred over single link (includes
tunneling), now the packet is being looked at for
network data transfer, local onboard data transfer
(including measurement broadcasting).
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
It is possible that the role of the packet might
change with the use of DTN bundles.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Just to take the broadest view: We currently have
two forms of packets, should there be more or
should even these be examined to determine if they
should be blended into a new packet design.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
Can we get each of you to send in your present and
possibly desired Use Cases for our beloved Space
Packet so that we could determine its future.
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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<p> </p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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