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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I get that you would like this, but that would mean changing all of the existing header structures that are already in wide use. I think what we should do it to treat this like a "managed parameter" where you have to know which of the
formats you are processing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That said, for any new / future formats you could certainly include some sort of standard "secondary header type" flag, but for current ones I think you must accept the "managed" approach. Otherwise this will never get off the ground.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SLS-SLP <sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP <sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:43 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov>, Scott Burleigh <Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov>, "Greenberg, Edward" <Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov>, "sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org" <sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Lee Pitts <robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Peter,<br>
<br>
If we have agreement I will start rapidly moving in that direction. The schema will be the SOIS EDS and SOIS DoT. For true interoperability I think we need something in the headers that indicate which one of the secondary headers is being used so it can
be parsed at run-time.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:36 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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Hi Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
If there is a DEM to SPP mapping that uses the standard SPP headers and adds the DEM as a packet secondary header that would be entirely suitable.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
I'd like to encourage something like a two level approach to this:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>A registry for each SPP secondary header that is registered, with org, contact person, name of the project, and a pointer to the documentation
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>An XML schema (or JSON, your choice) that formalizes the secondary header structure, field names, data types, sizes, and definitions
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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That way people can look it up, understand it, know where to find more info, etc. And, as I suggested, using the DoT would lend a certain regularity to the typing of the data.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Does his make sense to you guys? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Thanks, Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From: </b>SLS-SLP <a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">
<Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, Scott Burleigh
<a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, "Greenberg, Edward"
<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</a> <a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">
<sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Lee Pitts <a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Peter and folks<br>
<br>
I agree with Peter's approach and would welcome moving forward with this. Hopefully before the missions finalize their implementation.
<br>
<br>
As I remember, the DEM did not adopt the SPP format but they did contain the same type of meta data that ECSS-PUS and the SPP proposal contain. The mapping between the Orion DEM and the SPP proposal format has been done and is in use at JSC for the LOP-G
prototyping efforts. <br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<br>
On 2/28/2019 10:14 AM, Shames, Peter M (312B) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
What we have proposed in the SPP revision is to create a SANA registry for local, agency, or even multi-agency packet secondary headers. This could include PUS, MAL packet mapping, Jonathan's LOP-G headers, and others. There is a proposal for a simple registry
structure in the draft SPP doc that would allow all of these to be registered. I suggest that you look at this and propose any needed metadata for the registry. You could try and engage in some sort of "normalization" effort for the field names, structures,
and contents, or at least try and do some sort of evaluation of the kinds of data and the different ways they are named and represented. I'll bet you will find that they are all over the map.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
By the way, the SOIS Dictionary of Terms (DoT) may prove to be useful as a source of standardized terms.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Lastly, as I recall the Constellation DEM did not adhere to the SPP at all. I may be mis-remembering.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Cheers, Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From: </b>SLS-SLP <a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a> on behalf of Jonathan Wilmot via SLS-SLP
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"Wilmot, Jonathan J. (GSFC-5820)" <a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">
<Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 7:03 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Scott Burleigh <a href="mailto:Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov"><Scott.C.Burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, "Greenberg, Edward"
<a href="mailto:Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov"><Edward.Greenberg@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
<a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">"sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org"</a> <a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">
<sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Peter Shames <a href="mailto:Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>, Lee Pitts
<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Sls-slp] Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Ed, Scott,<br>
<br>
The CCSDS Space Packet is being used at NASA, ESA and CAST as end user application command and telemetry message. It contains information in the primary and secondary headers to allow end user applications to identify the data content and format, and also
allow mission architecture specific lower layers to transport user application data within a subnetworks or across networks.
<br>
<br>
As part of this discussion I would like to re-submit a proposal to create a secondary header that could be included as an optional header in the SPP Blue book or registered in SANA as a standard SPP secondary header type. (ECSS-PUS headers should also be
registered)<br>
<br>
Note: The LOP-G program, and other missions at JSC, GSFC, and ARC, are currently using the format in the attached proposal. This is an opportunity for CCSDS to improve mission interoperability by supporting the SPP uses cases that missions require.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
Jonathan Wilmot<br>
NASA/GSFC<br>
CCSDS SOIS Area Director<br>
<br>
On 4/22/2018 12:16 PM, Burleigh, Scott C (312B) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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Ed, I think of the Space Packet as being the thing that the old Constellation project called a Data Exchange Message (DEM). I think it performs the same function in the stack, and I suspect that it could easily carry all the same metadata that the DEM was
supposed to carry.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Scott<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>From:</b> Greenberg, Edward (312B) <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov">Jonathan.J.Wilmot@NASA.gov</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Lee Pitts <a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Call for Use Cases of Space Packet Protocol<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
There seems to be lots of new Use Cases for Space Packets then were considered in the original specification. For example:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
· ESA has PUS <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
· Space Station has its own secondary header <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
· Orion is looking for a secondary header <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Originally the Space Packet was an envelope for data transferred over single link (includes tunneling), now the packet is being looked at for network data transfer, local onboard data transfer (including measurement broadcasting).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
It is possible that the role of the packet might change with the use of DTN bundles.<o:p></o:p></p>
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Just to take the broadest view: We currently have two forms of packets, should there be more or should even these be examined to determine if they should be blended into a new packet design.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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Can we get each of you to send in your present and possibly desired Use Cases for our beloved Space Packet so that we could determine its future.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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