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<title>Re: [Sls-slp] JAXA RID against OID Frame</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That is our plan.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Greenberg,
Edward <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009
6:49 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kazz, Greg J; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Matt Cosby</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Takahiro Yamada</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Tim RAY</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jean-Luc.Gerner@esa.int</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">gilles.moury@cnes.fr</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Sls-slp] JAXA RID
against OID Frame</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:4.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>So if you can read the spec and think
that a project can do that then write it into the spec that you can’t do
that. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/4/09 4:34 PM, "Kazz, Greg J" <greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
5.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ed,<br>
<br>
You are saying the service provider (DSN, SN, GN, ESA, etc) would not provide
OID packets to the user. I agree. I was only saying that the way the standard
is written today, it is possible for a project to think that they could put
data into a packet secondary header of an OID packet and think it is a valid
thing to do.<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:5.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:5.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Greenberg, Edward <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009
4:18 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kazz, Greg J; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Matt Cosby</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Takahiro Yamada</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Tim RAY</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jean-Luc.Gerner@esa.int</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">gilles.moury@cnes.fr</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Sls-slp] JAXA RID
against OID Frame<br>
</span></font><font size=1><span style='font-size:6.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:2.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>NO, Projects should not be allowed to get
fill/idle/OID packets. OID frames on the other
hand can contain insert data if managed for the physical channel (TM or AOS)<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/4/09 8:26 AM, "Kazz, Greg J" <greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote:<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:2.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You are all thinking very logically. But flight
projects often cut corners and find all sorts of unusual and esoteric ways of
utilizing the standards. Consensus on this matter seems to be, yes it is
possible, but the limit of the probability of doing so approaches zero.<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
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<p><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.5pt;font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:2.5pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=1
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:2.5pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Greenberg, Edward
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009
3:03 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Matt
Cosby</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</st1:PersonName>;
Kazz, Greg J<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Takahiro Yamada</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Tim RAY</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jean-Luc.Gerner@esa.int</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">gilles.moury@cnes.fr</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Sls-slp] JAXA RID
against OID Frame<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:3.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>I agree with Matt and Gian Paolo. If you want to send
a packet with a meaningful secondary header and no useful information thengive
it an APID with that interpretation, not one that says it only contains idle
data. Have a wonderful time discussing this trivia. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/4/09 1:59 AM, "Cosby Matthew" <MCOSBY@qinetiq.com> wrote:<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Greg,<br>
<br>
I agree with Gian Paolo. <br>
<br>
When our TM systems detect an Idle Packet (APID set to 0x7FF) it discards it. <br>
<br>
>From the TM Spec.<br>
</span></font><b><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold'>4.3.2.5 </span></font></b><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Extracted
Packets shall be delivered to the users on the basis of the PVN in their header.
Incomplete Packets are not required to be delivered in cross support
situations. <br>
<br>
NOTE . Idle Packets are discarded. Data Fields that contain only Idle Data are
also discarded.<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
This states that the Idle Packet is discarded and implies that there is no user
data within the packet. There probability isn’t any where in the standard
stating that you can’t put a secondary header in the Idle Packet, but
this is implied as this packet is thrown out. So quoting Gian Paolo it would be
crazy to put any useful data into the idle packet.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Matt.<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Matthew Cosby<br>
<br>
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<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName> [<a
href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org%5d">mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org]</a>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org%5d"><mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org%5d></a>
<a href="mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org%5d"><mailto:sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org%5d></a>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b></span></font><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:4.5pt;font-family:
Tahoma'>Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</span></font></st1:PersonName><br>
<b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:4.5pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=1 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:4.5pt;font-family:Tahoma'> 03 March 2009 18:21<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kazz, Greg J<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Takahiro Yamada</st1:PersonName>; Ray,Timothy J.
(GSFC-583.0); <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jean-Luc.Gerner@esa.int</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sls-slp-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">gilles.moury@cnes.fr</st1:PersonName>; Greenberg,Edward<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Sls-slp] JAXA RID
against OID Frame<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>"Kazz, Greg J" <greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote on 03-03-2009 18:21:35:<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> G.P.,</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> <br>
> But a Space Packet can contain a Secondary Header, which could <br>
> contain useful data as well. So in that sense, OID Packet also makes<br>
> sense. In other words, discarding an “Idle Packet” can have a <br>
> drawback or unintended consequence. CCSDS needs to use consistent <br>
> terminology across the board and I think that is what this JAXA rid <br>
> is pointing out. I am looking forward to Marjorie’s responses to <br>
> those rids as well.</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> <br>
> thanks,</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> <br>
> Greg</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Greg,</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> The Frame has a structure
linked to the Virtual Channel and all frames on a VC have the secondary header
(if this is used) independently they are OID or not.</span></font><font size=1
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Conversely the Space Packet has a structure linked
to the APID and a mission implementing a Packet Secondary Header on Idle
Packets would just be crazy. :-) In addition, I think that, being the idle APID
fixed, there is no chance for having a Secondary header in an Idle Packet [this
is TBC].</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Comments/confirmations are welcome.</span></font><font
size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Ciao</span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:4.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:4.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Gian Paolo<br>
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w:st="on">United Kingdom</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Trading address: <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Cody</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Technology</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Park</st1:PlaceType>,
<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Cody</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceName>,
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Ively Road</st1:address></st1:Street>,
Farnborough, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hampshire</st1:City>, <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">GU14 0LX</st1:PostalCode>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">United
Kingdom</st1:country-region></st1:place> <br>
<a href="http://www.qinetiq.com/home/notices/legal.html">http://www.qinetiq.com/home/notices/legal.html</a>
<a href="http://www.QinetiQ.com/home/legal.html"><http://www.QinetiQ.com/home/legal.html></a>
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